Joe Jeanette is one of the more obscure hall of fame fighters. There is no film on him in the ring besides a exhibition match for W.W. II Bonds vs Jack Johnson. News reads, and media focus on Jeanette seem a bit light in comparison to his contemporizes as well. Who was Joe Jeanette? Was he as tough as his record indicates? What was his style? Here are some two news reads on Jeanette vs Black Bill. Enjoy. [url]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B07E1D61F39E333A25752C1A9679D946196D6CF&scp=1&sq=Joe+jeanette&st=p[/url] [url]http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9D0DE3D91E3CE633A25755C1A9609C946396D6CF[/url]
Thanks for the links I've always like Jeanette i wish his fight against McVey in France had been recorded 49 rounds and 48 knockdowns must have been some war.
I have info on that fight. Here's Jeanette's bio from the New Jeresy Boxing Hall of fame This content is protected This content is protected
Hi Mendoza, Great articles - you are, as always, a true boxing fan. Mendoza, do you think that prime Jeannette could have beaten Jack Johnson? Grebfan9 [url]www.firstroundboxing.com[/url]
The Jeanette who fought Johnson was but a green novice. In some cases, Jeanette had a losing record / less than 10 total fights, yet he pretty much held his own with a prime version of Johnson. This to me suggests that a prime Jeanette certainly could defeat Johnson. Jeanette's prime years were from 1908-1915 which happened to be the years Johnson was champion. Since I have not seen Jeanette in the ring, I am not exactly sure what he had or what type of tactics he used. If Jeanette had and used a jab, used footwork and threw punches in bunches, I think Johnson's in some trouble. From what I have read, Jeanette did not jab much, but did move around a lot, was solid on defense, and did throw punches in bunches. I do know that Jeanette was an extremely tough/durable fighter with tremendous stamina, and will to win. He was close to Johnson in size. He could punch a bit, and unlike Johnson did not come into fights overweight. Based on Johnson's title performances, I think Jeanette would have beaten Johnson from 1911-1915, but I would give the nod to the Johnson who defeated Burns in 1908 and Jeffries in 1910. Of Course Johnson trained his hardest for these fights, and did not train as hard for his other title fights. In addition to being a great fighter, Jeanette was a very good older fighter. Indeed, Jeanette got the better of Kid Norfolk in 1918 approaching his 39th birthday.
Thread softly with this thread. Jeannette was very good from what I can discern but he is slightly getting swept up in the Langford, McVey, Wills revisionalism. Johnson generally got the better of Joe-no disgrace that as Jeannette was much less experienced- but its not correct to say that the facts as we know them suggest he was generally equal to Jack IN THEIR FIGHTS. A loss to Tony Ross does not stand well oh his resume and from British reports I have read he was very lucky to get the referees nod over a 20 year old Georges Carpentier. It seems a bit presumptious to to say (as some do) that he would defeat the likes of Gunboat Smith , Tommy Burns, Jess Willard, or Luther McCarthy FOR CERTAIN.
Matt, Johnson drew and had a few NC's with an in-experienced Jeanette, hence the fights were close. The fight that Jeanette won via DQ over Johnson was the result of a good first round by Jeanette, followed up by a bad low blow from Johnson in round two. The last Johnson vs Jeanette fight was a draw. Jeanette did not lose to Ross. If he did, I missed it. IMO, Jeannettes wins over Langford, McVey, Norfolk, Clark and Pelky are better than McCarthy, Willards, and Burns best wins. I'd pretty much favor Jeanette over any white hope, except for a prime Gunboat Smith and that one is close to pick em'. Was Carpentier robbed in his home country vs Jeanette? A Frenchman robbed in his native land vs a black American? Scare blue! I find this hard to believe. Can you post the information here? Although Langford got the better of Jeanette, Jeanette owns a KO win and a decsion win over Langford. I think Jeanette got the better of McVey.
Following supplied by Clay Moyle; March 28, 1914 – The Mirror of Life And Boxing World. Joe Jeannette Beats Carpentier. Georges Unlucky to Lose Decision. Jeannette Knocked Down in First Round. A Record House. “Frantz Reichel gave Joe Jeannette the decision after the hard fifteen rounds contest that put the coloured heavyweight and the famous French champion, Georges Carpentier, together at Luna Park last Saturday evening. It was a severe tussle from start to finish, Carpentier doing enough in my estimation to deserve the verdict. Some were of opinion that the French champion had obtained a good victory, but this may be somewhat exaggerated. At the opening of hostilities we had the impression that Jeannette was in for a decisive defeat, Carpenteir, near the end of the initial round getting home a formidable left and right to jaw that sent Jeannette to the boards. The coloured man rose at once, but the fact was significant and gave Carpentier partisans great hopes. Georges, however, never scored a second knock down, although he came near doing so in the eighth round, time finding Joe weak and groggy. My opinion is that Carpentier would have done far better than he did had he contented himself with boxing his opponent. Quicker than Jeannette and cleverer, Georges at long range proved himself the better man, and I cannot understand why he did not go after a points victory instead of trying to win by a knockout. Perhaps Jeannette’s going-down in the first round caused Carpentier to change his plan of campaign, but even then he had time to find out his mistake and change tactics. Jeannette, with the respectable pull in weight he possessed, was the strongest man and at close quarters especially. Yet Carpentier never attempted to avoid in-fighting. On the contrary, he seemed to encourage it amining many a time at Jeannette’s stomach at close quarters, to be beaten off time and again by the coloured boxer’s heavy rib blows and vicious uppercuts. Perseverance, we are told, is always recompensed, and it was the case in Saturday’s contest. In the eighth ro9und, unheeding Jeannette’s counters, Georges pleased himself at close quarters, his head against Joe’s breast, and pummeled away at Jeannette’s stomach as he had pummeled away at Bombardier Well’s anatomy last December. At times he raised himself to lash out vicious and effective lefts and rights to jaw, returning at once downstairs to continue his dangerous work. This lasted fully two minutes and a half of the three minute round, and under the severe treatment Jeannette weakened considerable, ran groggy and could hardly stand on his legs when the gong ended the session. This piece of infighting work on Carpentier’s part was grand, really grand, but he suffered greatly before and after in his attempts to pull it off. From round eight to the end of round eleven Carpentier assumed the mastery, Jeannette being still weak from the punishment received. In the twelfth round Jeannette woke up. Carpentier again attempted infighting, but if he was highly successful in round eight his efforts were a drastic failure. Still he persisted, receiving, during the last minute of that session, stiff punishment from Joe’s uppercuts. The gong found the French champion weak, and his features severely marked. The last three rounds were furiously contested, and much to everyone’s surprise Franz Reichel named Joe Jeannette the winner. At two o’clock in the afternoon Carpentier weighed 76 kilos and Jeannette 83 kilos. The largest house ever recorded for a boxing contest in France witnessed the contest.”
05/09/05 JOHNSON BEAT TWO MEN CALIFORNIA HEAVYWEIGHT HAD FAST SIX ROUNDS JANETTE STAYED LIMIT New Yorker Put Up Game Contest And Made The Westerner Hustle- Walter Johnson Was Knocked Out PHILADELPHIA RECORD (5/9/05) Jack Johnson added a couple more scalps yo his collection last night at the Knickerbocker A.C. (Philadelphia)by defeating Joe Janette, of New York, and Walter Johnson, late of Boston. in three rounds each.Janette lasted the full three rounds and while he made quite a good showing at times carried the big crowd with him by rushing Johnson, yet it was easily seen that Johnson was his master as a boxer. Johnson towered over the New York man as they shook hands and he appeared to be cosiderably heavier than Janette. Janette was well coached to keep close to Johnson and by so doing the big fellow could not use his great long arms to such a good advantage. Johnson alternated his attack from face to body, using his left more than his right. Johnson tried two or three times for a right hand punch to the jaw in the first round, but could not connect. In one of Johnson's rushes Jenette went down.. Janette landed several blows, one right-hander making Johnson blink. Janette started the second round with a rush. There was a hot mix which ended in a clinch. Then Johnson landed three left-handed blows to the stomach in quick succession. Janette stood up gamely and landed several hard blows. Johnson dropped Janette with a punch on the head and he took the count. Janette clinched considerably and Johnson pounded his kidneys. The crowd did not like this and hooted him for it. Johnson missed two lefts in the third. Janette got in a hard one to the jaw. A good mix-up followed. Johnson got in several body punches, Janette missed a swing to the jaw. Later he slipped to the floor. Johnson rushed Janette and he was forced to cover up. Johnson tried hard for the jaw but missed. Janette got one to the body.Johnson rushed Janette to his knees and just as he got to his feet the [final] bell rang. Walter Johnson did not show up as well as janette. He spent most of his time tin-canning and clinching and seldom landed a blow during the first two rounds They shook hands as the third started and Jack, feinting with his left, put the right to Walter's jaw and the latter went down and although he tried hard to get up he was counted out. 05/19/05 No report 11/25/05 JOHNSON BEATS JEANETTE Negro Champion, However, Was Disqualified on an Alleged Foul 11/25/05-PHILADELPHIA LEDGER After outclassing Joe Jeanette for a round and a half, Jack Johnson, The Negro Heavyweight Champion of the World, lost the bout at the National Athletic Club [Phila.] last night on an alleged foul. Jeanette, after being thumped in lively fashion in the first round, assumed a crouching pose in the secondround. He undertook to run in and clinch, ducking a vicious right hand swing. Johnson ripped a right hand hook up for Jeanette's jaw. The latter dropped to the floor,writhing in apparent agony. He claimed to have been struck a foul blow. He was removed to the dressing room and the club physician substantiated his claim. Johnson was promtly disqualified. Jeanettte professed to be in great pain and lay in his dressing room in apparent agony. It is understood that the police proposed to keep Johnson to keep Johnson, Jeanette and the club officialunder surveillance. 12/02/05 PHILADELPHIA, Pa., Dec. 4.Stirred into action by the. yells of disgust from the spectators. Jack Johnson made things lively for Joe Jeannctte in the last two rounds at tlie National A. C. Saturday night. In the fifth round Johnson knocked his opponent down once and in the last round he sent Joe to the mat hwicn. Nearly all the hard punching was concentrated in those two rounds. Johnson f r i e d to knock out his opponent in the sixth round. He rushed and sent Jeancite to the ropes with body blows. Johnson then floored Jeannette with a right swing on the jaw. The bell rang before Johnson could get started again 01/16/06 Jack Johnson,; the colored heiavyweight. who challenged Jim Jeffries at different times, made his New York debut in the ring ;in a three-round bout at the Sharkey A. C. Monday night with Joe Jeanette, and the negro Johnson, as usual, showed his skill as, a boxer and had no trouble In outpointing Jeanette. 09/20/06 Daily Kennebec Journal, 9/22/06 Stayed the limit but Jeanette Had the Worst Of Bout. With Jack Johnson. Philadelphia Sept 2 Joe Jean- nette of New York by clever defensive work for five round and by clinching in the final managed to last the six rounds limit with Jack Johnson at the Broadway A C Thursday night. Johnson had every advantage over Joe being 20 pounds heavier and con- siderably taller. The men mixed it up the first two rounds - The next was in Johnsons favor his left frequently reachings Early In the second round Jeannette cut Johnson over his eye w i t h a long left swing Johnson rushed haid but was wild, and Jeannette three times reached his eye before the bell rang. After that the fight was pretty much all Johnson's although owlng to Jean- nette's clever blocking Jack never had his opponent in dlstress except for a moment In the sixth. 11/26/06
I was just going to post that. Records indicate Johnson got the better of Jeanette virtually everytime they fought, although Jeanette did trouble him on occassion which is a testament to his ability. We know that by early 1907 Jeannette was weighing about 185lbs, much like Johnson was at that time, so the size differential in their last bout (late 1906) was more than likely negligible. Considering they fought 8 times and Jeanette's only claim to a victory was with a foul in a fight Johnson was dominating, I think it's fair to back Johnson against Jeannette at any point of his career.
In fairness some papers have this fight even. Newcastle News, August 2, 1911. Tony Ross won the popular verdict over his opponent, Joe Jeanette, in the ring battle at New York last night The bout was a ten-round mix-up and was a whirlwind affair throughout. Tony showed marked improvement as the fight progressed and although Jeanette drew blood In tihe second round, the local mitt pusher proceeded to force the fighting and toward the latter part was doing all of the leading and the greater part of the fighting, easily having the better of the fight. This was one of the first big fights pulled off in New York under the new boxing law and when Tony left the ring at the completion of the bout he was given a great ovation by the followers of the game. With the two victories for Tony within the past week over heavyweight pugilists who rank well up in the class, Ross is now in better shape than ever to lay claim to being one of the best in the business today. As a result of his recent work Tony will likely be matched for some of the most important heavyweight ring battles to be scheduled in the future. He has a chance also to go to Australia to fight before Mclntosh's club. Carpentier fight "Boxing" mag London has a long and detailed coverage of the fight with photos and round by round summary and claimed strongly that Georges was robbed. Unfortunatedly its too big to post here but if somebody wants i can e-mail it to them.
I read a different write up on the foul win for Jeanette that says he got to Johnson early. I think Jeanette's lack of experience is the reason why Johnson got the better of him in several short fights. Jeanette had no amateur experience at all, and was green when he meet Johnson. Could Johnson handle a better skilled / prime version of Jeanette? Unkown. What is known is a very green Jeanette fought back and hung tough. Johnson was a tiger when he had the advantage, but when he was in their with a more experienced guy close to his size, he was cautious. The Carpientier read was very interesting. If he could defeat Jeanette, show the better skills, and floor him, then Jeanette might not be as good as I thought he was. I still like to read one more news report on this fight. If Carpientier was indeed robbed, then I am down grading Jeanette a tad. The news reads do not speak much of Jeanette’s defense either, which is semi disappointing because Nat Fleischer claimed Jeanette was hard to hit. Maybe Jeanette was harder to hit post Johnson, but pre Carpeitner?
In fairness I too have read the writeup which suggested Jeanette was troubling Johnson in a close bout before the foul. I think there is some enigma over the deliberation of the foul though, because Johnson was not known to be a dirty fighter, although I don't doubt the foul was legitimate (if not deliberate) He didn't record a decisive victory over Johnson but we know he was not out of his depth, even with a lack of experience, and this is of course a testament to his ability. There is a quote from Fleischer, something along the lines of "I believe the real reason Jeffries retired, is due to the emergence of a dusky quartet of fighters from 1905-1910, Langford, Johnson, Jeanette and McVea, whom no white fighter was the equal of."
The only one close to being on Jeffries level when he was champion was Johnson, but losses to people like Choynski, Griffin and Hart, along with average decisions and some draws do not bode well for Johnson when Jeffries was active. Langford was too small then, Jeanette way too green and unknown, and MCvey but a teenager. The dusky quartet did not emerge as forces until 1907-1908, which is three years after Jeffires last fight. Jeffries said he'd fight Hart if the public wanted to see it after Hart defeated Johnson. That is if the money was right. Jeffries also had offers to fight Billy Lang, and Billy Squire post 1905. If these people were black, I'm sure some historians would claim Jeffries drew the color line vs them too. Hart was seen as the #1 guy then after beating Johnson, and cementing it with a good fight vs a decent Jack Root. Here's what gets lost in the translation. Jeffries did box balck contender Hank Griffin as champion. Jeffries dominated the four rounder, flooring the same Griffin that Johnson could not defeat in three times in a one sided match. Had Griffin knocked Jeffries out, he you would be viewed as the lineal champion heavyweight champion of the world. Jeffries also fought Peter Jackson, who was the Birttish champion of the world, and black cotneder Bob Armstrong. Jeffries last fight was with Munroe. It was fought for personal reasons. The Munroe fight was a disaster financially for Jeffries. I think Jeffries came to a point in his life where boxing was on a slide, and the money wasn't quite as good, so he retired a rich man. Every man has a price. When a big purse is up, fighters tend to fight. When a fighter is broke, they also tend to fight. In 1905, there was nothing doing to interest Jeffries to fight on.