Ali and Louis freindship

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Hey guys, I'm going to give you a summary of two pages out of this book about the relations of Louis and Ali:

    In the late 60's, before Ali would say the nasty things about Louis, Joe would tell reporters: "Clay has a million dollars' worth of confidence and a dime's worth of courage," Louis went on. "He can't punch. He can't hurt you, and I don't think he takes a good punch. He's lucky there are no good fighters around. I'd rate him with Johnny Paycheck, Abe Simon, and Buddy Baer.... I would have whipped him. He doesn't know a thing about fighting on the ropes, which is where he would be with me. I would go in to outpunch him rather than try to outbox him. I'd press him, bang him around, claw him, clobber him with all I got, cut down his speed, belt him around the ribs I'd punish the body, where the pain comes real bad. Clay would have welts on his body. He would ache. His mouth would shut tight against the pain, and there would be tears burning his eyes."

    "Clay will earn the public's hatred because of his connections with the Black Muslims....The things they preach are just the opposite of what we believe. The heavyweight champion should be the champion of all people. He has responsibilities to all people."

    Ali's childhood hero was Joe Louis. The household he lived in praised Louis. It hurt a lot for Ali to hear the criticisms. In turn he would call Louis an Uncle Tom and claim he would "never end up like Joe Louis."

    During the 70's the relationship shifted. Louis was getting weaker. He finally "recognized Ali's skills as a fighter, reckoning that he would still beat him, but not as easily as he had disposed of Johnny Paycheck. In the mid-seventies, Ali invited him to his training camp and offered him a gift of thirty thousand dollars."

    When Louis died, Ali would say "Everybody loved Joe....From black folks to redneck Mississippi *******s, they loved him. They're all crying. That shows you. Howard Hughes dies, with all his billions, not a tear. Joe Louis, everybody cried."


    From "King of the World" Page 228-229









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  2. yaca you

    yaca you Someone past surprise Full Member

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    was joe really that critical of ali?

    I have always heard the uncle tom remarks about louis, but not so much the criticisms of ali by louis it kind of seems out of character. I know louis picked against ali in the sonny liston fight but so did everyone else.

    interesting reznick, thanks for posting this

    nice pics too, from the book?
     
  3. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    The pics are from google, I just wanted to add some flavor lol


    The book asks to remind you that Louis was in bad shape at the time of the quote. He was at the low point of his life. It was just before he had become the greeter at Ceasers. I don't think it changes Louis' mind about his feelings towards the fight, I just think it explains his "out of character bluntness" so to speak.

    The book also points out to Sonny Listons extensive kindness towards Louis. Joe would often walk up to Sonny in Vegas, and Liston would give him $500 at a time, and Joe would gamble it, and usually lose it. Sometimes Louis would ask Liston for money multiple times a day. One time Louis came up to Liston while he was in pretty bad mood, and Liston told him "Not this time Joe, enough." Louis just turned around and started walking away slowly, and Liston couldn't see his hero like that, so he sent his friend to go bring Louis back, and Liston gave him another $500. Actually, it was through Listons connection that Louis got the job as the greeter.
     
  4. Garrus

    Garrus Big Boss 1935-2014 Full Member

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    Quite a friend Liston was.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    The two greatest heavyweights that ever drew breath in the same room at the same time.
     
  6. highguard

    highguard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    wow that is a friend
     
  7. Garrus

    Garrus Big Boss 1935-2014 Full Member

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    What a lucky photographer.
     
  8. tommygun711

    tommygun711 The Future Full Member

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    sarcasm?
    I think Liston was a good friend, from what i can tell from the books and documentaries ive seen/read
     
  9. Garrus

    Garrus Big Boss 1935-2014 Full Member

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    Nope.
    It was cool of him to do that.
     
  10. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    yea and 500 wasnt chump change back then either!
     
  11. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What a nice thread. Got to say that amongst ex fighters there is a bond, an understanding.
     
  12. MIK1000

    MIK1000 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    you can imagine Joe doing similar things at the time with his money when he was in his prime, he was far too generous for his own good.
     
  13. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    I remember reading some article a few years back regarding the friendship of Joe Louis and Sonny Liston. They hung out together in the late 60s in Vegas quite a bit. After Liston died, someone had given Louis some money to go gamble in the casinos. Louis contemplated going gambling instead of going to Sonny's funeral, and said "Sonny would understand". But he ended up attending the funeral anyway.

    In regards to Ali giving Louis money, that doesn't surprise me. Despite Ali's penchant for making cruel remarks, he was also known for being very generous as well.

    Pretty ****ed up how Ali called Louis an Uncle Tom though. I don't like how Louis has never gotten the credit he deserves as being a color-breaker in sports and American society. He had people of all colors backing him when he faced Max Schmeling. Look at how many black HWs got title shots pre-Louis/post-Johnson and how many got them after Louis. He also helped get Jackie Robinson out of that mess in the Army after he beat up a racist officer. What was it that Jackie said, "Without Joe Louis, there is no Jackie Robinson". Something to that extent.
     
  14. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wow, Ali's a real **** sucker.

    Calling an old Joe Louis and Frazier uncle toms in the racially charged 60 and 70's, the equivalent of calling a man a ******?

    Wow. He was just like a little ****ing baby, anyone who disagreed him was instantly the worst thing he could slander them with.

    Louis was too old to defend himself any way but verbally, and he was, as has been discussed lately, "slow" socially.

    Frazier was as well.

    What a charismatic, smart man Ali was. What a good human being. :lol:
     
  15. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali got himself involved with the Muslims and it was no turning back.