sounds like what the nazi's said :"behfel ist behfel". no matter how many power a goverment has over people if they want you to do something that goes straight against you're personal believes you should refuse.........only people who follow blindly the goverment are like sheep
REZ, If the 'under-world group' wanted a young Muhammad Ali, that would have taken him. Bigger fish were available elsewhere. The 'mob' boys didn't make that much money with Sonny Liston. And the guys that were associated with Liston, were the 'fringe connection'. The connected guys made their 'last monies' with the Ali vs. Liston II fight. And, when Muhammad Ali tried to get ou of that fight, he was told he had to go through with it,,,,,,,,,,,and he did. Ali listened to Bill Faversham, Jr.
and let's not forget the most important thing as i stated before..... why should he go and fight in vietnam ????????? was his country under attack by any kind ??????? NO...!! the vietnamese kicked the french out..and after that it was an internal conflict of the vietnamese people.. only the USA didn't want the whole country to become communist and they got involved.. they had no bussiness there.. so with all due respect for the people who died there it's there own fault
Just how would the 'Mafia' as you say, benefited greatly from owning Muhammad Ali. Just how much money could they have made, 1964 thru 1967. After Sonny Liston I and II,, the only money-maker was Floyd Patterson, who was 'Box Office Gold' Damn, the Ali vs. Chuvalo fight only took in $180,000 Gross (Live Gate + Closed Circuit) After fighters purses and expenses,,,,,the promotion lost about $200,000. What ,all the 'families' sharing in that pie. He wasn't worth the aggravation. They controlled the 'closed circuit operations' so Ali really worked for them anyway.
Junior, if it wasn't for some close family and friends who DIED in Europe, and to be candid, saved your ass, you wouldn't be here to spout such utter nonsense. My older friends fought, and several died in World War 2, fighting Hitler and Imperial Japan, and made it possible that you are now here. America didn't have to fight the Nazi's,3000 miles away, but we all have obligations to some cause and we honored it. Would you in your infinite wisdom be around now in the Netherlands, if the USA didn't intervene ? The answer is self evident...NAY... You say fighting the communists who were supported by the dictator Joseph Stalin in Viet Nam was wrong.Could the only democratic superpower America, allow an evil man as Stalin [who killed more souls than Hitler], run rampant,aiding new communist regimes, until democracy itself was threatened, not attempt to stop Stalin ? No, I say. Our cause was noble, even though the outcome wasn't a complete success. I don't talk politics, but a free society has to be as willing to defend liberty,as an evil dictator pushing, to destroy freedom... Santayana,the philosopher said : "Those that do not read history, are coindemned to repeat it"...So true....
Duce You dont think open minded enough there are so too many possibilities. They could have told him to take a dive just to see how reliable he was. There are too many possibilities, and if you were in the mob and it were your day job, Im sure you could think of many different ways it could help you it to control Ali.
There seems to be a big difference in teaming up with the lesser of two evils, to destroy the Nazi regime, than invading a country based on a false made-up attack. Our assistance in WWII was pivotal for the Nazi' surrender. What was the urgency with Vietnam? The politics of the two wars are not easily comparable in my eyes.
REZ, I'm not sure if you are aware, but in 1962/1963/1964/1965 the 'connected boys' were so involved in construction with the Worlds Fair in New York, that they had little time to play with the 'Heavyweight Title'. Only the fringe guys were interested in 'owning fighters', just to be seen with them. They were not big money makers anymore. Not until the Fight of the Century, did boxing come into the big money.
R, Do not be na'ive. Of course Hitler was a more potential threat to the USA even from 3000 miles away, but Stalin was aiding the Communist regime in Nam,of that there is no doubt. A major democracy has to honor treaties and commitments,it has, or the Stalin regime would keep on creating more havoc testing the USA resolve.It is a cruel world out there and sometimes ,a surgeon has to operate on a patient, before a tumour gives symptoms...What did Ben Franklin say? "an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure ".
Full Metal Jacket,,,,,,, Interviewing U.S. Soldiers,,,,,,,'We're fighting on the wrong side, we should be arming the North Vietnamese'.
mr. bienstock this is why all the rest of the world including most european people think most americans are arrogant people.. everytime someone critics the usa you people bring up WWII and that you freed us europeans. well thanx for that but facts are facts.. who are you americans to judge what is right and wrong and to invade other countries cause they are communist or not democratic ??? the usa was part in more wars since wwII then any other countrie. and that in the name of freedom ?? haha don't make me laugh.. it is al politics. you people supported some of the greatest dictators in the world just as long as they where anti-communism it was okay with you...and you're goverment closed there eyes for what they did.. you americans tried for 50 years to be policeman of the world and judge everyone by you're moral views.... well let me tell you this...maybe you're truth isn't the only truth... l
I agree. People should follow their own conscience. I never suggested Ali should have blindly followed, I'm just pointing out that the issue of being called up to fight wasn't some "victimization" of Ali, and the sacrifices he made for refusing were not actually as severe as what many other "regular"citizens had to endure. Ali was actually quite privileged, with his high-paid lawyers and his status as a public figure. He didn't do 5 years in jail, or even 5 months, nor did he have to flee the country, nor did he go and get killed in the jungle. Most guys who refused the draft suffered much harsher penalties.
P.S. Stalin was already dead when usa entered vietnam. mr. bienstock. stalin died in 1954 i believe give or take year. you shouldn't believe everything you're goverment tells you