oh and mr. bienstock. at the jalta convention when churchill said stalin should be stopped. who agreed to give half of europe to stalin ?? you're own mr. truman. and so for 40 years the eastern half of europe was communist and suffered from the sovjets.. so if you critize me then please get you're history facts straightened out.
Only 100 U.S Serviceman had lost their lives in Vietnam, as of December 1962. Cassius Clay must have been some kind of visionary, to see what was coming ahead.
The mafia isn't some medieval fighting unit that needs to prove itself in hand-to-hand combat, it's not a regular army or a paramilitary. The mafia are a bit more sinister than that. They controlled things, through very evil methods. The NOI didn't mess with the mafia, and the mafia had little reason to mess with the NOI. No, you said they were responsible for ridding boxing of mafia influence. That's what you said. And, no, I don't think any mobsters were interested in "owning" Cassius Clay, but you need to realize that they probably had a slice of the Ali-Liston promotions and the Ali-Patterson fight anyway ! Mobsters were also connected to Chris and Angelo Dundee, who had been running Miami boxing at the grace of Frank Carbo and the IBC in the 1950s. As I explained before, if any individual mobsters had a stake in big-time boxing in the 1960s it was through the closed-circuit promotional companies and in Las Vegas with the gambling. And why do you think Ali would know about the history of the mob in boxing ? Ali didn't know where the money was going. That's why he ended up getting robbed by everyone ! He didn't know about who really owned the business. Ali was just a fighter. If you wanna say some of Ali's NOI friends once sent some two-bit hooldlums on their way, then that's one thing. But if you say that the NOI "got rid of mafia in boxing", that's a completely different thing.
Look, I'll put it simply : Joe Frazier was NOT an Uncle Tom. Joe Frazier was NOT "more of" an Uncle Tom than Ali. Anyone who says Frazier was "an Uncle Tom compared to Ali" is full of ****.
I agree with you, neither one of them messed with each other, or wanted to, because it could get messy. They have to respect each others power to have that type of mentality for one another. NOI were pretty dangerous behind the scenes as well. From Malcolm, till yesterdays news where the Fruit of islam had a territorial "standoff" with Obama's security. The foi had actual government deals with policing the streets. Thats on the wikipedia page posted earlier. I would say the mob is out of their league, not the other way around. Then again, they are two entirely different organizations with entirely different aspirations. But life is not as simple as "The Dundee brothers were connected to the mob." I have heard Angelo address this in many interviews. I dont even remember what he said about it, but I remember hearing his explanation and never giving it much thought again from the interview. What was his connection to the mob again? "And why do you think Ali would know about the history of the mob in boxing ? Ali didn't know where the money was going. That's why he ended up getting robbed by everyone !" I dont understand the point you are making. Ali has no idea about the history of the mob, because he has been financially used by people around him? I dont exactly see the connection here. Remember, Ali is an older wise man now. Anything he knows about the mob is more than you or I know, unless you or I had personal dealings with the mob. I haven't, I dont know about you, but Ali sure has. So his word about the mob is probably better than ours, considering he actually lived the history, rather than read it in a book. I'm gonna ask to hear the story again because it's been a few years since I've heard it. I will be a lot more detailed in my questioning now, because you make some good points, and I can't help to become a bit skeptical. I have an open mind, which I am thankful for. I will bring up the same points you made pertaining to the mafias control on boxing and whether or not the encounter before Ali Liston 1 truly had a drastic change on the sport.
But you call Ali Cassius Clay intentionally. So what your doing is just as bad, if not worse, considering you insist on calling him a name that he associates with his enslaved ancestry. See how Ali keeps defeating you in the game of morals Duce? He doesnt even have to be aware of it and he is still beating you hahahah :hi:
U,I realize the fact that Stalin died soon after the second World War.I was around at that time.I of course was referring to Stalinism at the time of the U.S. intervention in Vietnam, just as today we refer to Karl Marx, by using the term Marxism,though Marx died in 1883... Junior is devoid of consistancy,and reality. On one hand he vehemently blames Truman for allowing Stalin to impose Communism on half of Europe,[mistake on the Allies part], but then criticize the USA for preventing this scourge from taking place years later in Vietnam..Hypocrisy, and very little thought on his part...The USA tried to make amends with the Berlin airlift,which prevented masses of West Berliners from starving...In a countries existance ,there are problems with NO perfect solutions, but we must have as much resolve as the despots, for sure. P.S. Brave Junior S, states he has no pity for some of my buddies who died in NAM. He says this from a country who's very survival, ultimately depended on the USA, in World War 2...But of course his very right to spout such nonsense and cruelty to our VietNam dead, who shed their blood for anb ingrate as he...Sorry U,for this long post...Now back to boxing...
Uncle Rez,,,,, Cassius Clay existed up until 2/25/64 Approximately 10:20 PM that night,,,,,,,Muhammad Ali announced himself to the world. I'm not sure how long Cassius X was around though,,,,,,, And he announced himself to the world, after he got the O.K. from Bill Faversham,,,,,,,and that's the truth.
I've never read or heard such a quote, and it is totally unlike Ali --at any stage in his life-- to seriously mention putting anybody to death. If he did say it, I'm sure it came during one of those early youthful rants in which he simply --mindlessly, certainly-- spouted out what he heard at Nation meetings. To me, the fact that Ali did associate with whites bears out his genuine acceptance of all people. Whites, from his very first boxing instructor, to the only group with a solid proposal to go pro-- helped him many times along the way! Why should he have harbored hatred? If you have any experience belonging to a radical group, you know that many times you don't actually adopt some of the strictest tenets to the letter. Young Olympian Cassius certainly --naively-- seemed prepared to get past racist agendas when he told off a Soviet reporter who brought up segregation, as we all know: "Tell your readers we got qualified people working on that problem, and I'm not worried about the outcome. To me, the USA is the best country in the world, including yours." But the rude awakening of continued real-world racism was bound to make an impressionable black youth such as Clay vulnerable to whatever doctrine came calling with a message of: whites don't want you (a painfully-learned lesson for Clay) so stick within your own kind (what else was there?) Clay was not privileged enough to have the breadth of mind that might have come with a liberal education. Amen to that. I don't have much first-hand material from Nation meetings of the time, but my gut call is, when you remove all the mother spaceships, E.T.-headed babies, mad scientists and similar nonsense, the Nation of Islam promoted black well-being: cleaning up pimps like Malcolm X, fostering a much-needed improved self-image, and teaching the right to self-defense. As the Honorable Elijah Muhammad would say, just shut your door on all the snakes out there; some may mean you no harm, but who's to know? Bottom line: it wasn't the best way to go about improving the lot of blacks; like all religious groups stemming from an influential leader, there was good and bad in it all, and some things were knocked down while trying to build up. But it helped many well-meaning folks (I believe Clay was among them) and turned out to be a stage on the path to further enlightenment for many of these as well.
Elijah Muhammad and Herbert Muhammamd both liked to drive complimentary Mercedes Benz 450 SL's,,,,,,,,,as long as Muhammad Ali would cover the expenses. I think they were called the 'Space Ship Transporters'