Herol and Andrew, I love you guys, but you're giving me a headache. I don't know where I am. Can you both please ask your questions to each other again, and then respectfully answer them? I'm interested to know what they were. Then we can move on. Otherwise this is going to go on and on for pages and pages. :good
The thing is, Herol has a history of abandoning his substantive points once I shoot them down, and then claiming I'm not answering something. He does this all the time. He will usually pick one particular thing where his grammar is especially unclear, or his point is particularly nonexistent, ignoring a half dozen meaningful arguments, and then sit on that point and say I'm not answering. Its a no win situation at that point. If I can't understand what he means, I can't answer it. And he never clarifies what his point is, because he knows I'll shoot him down. Its his sad way that he thinks he can "win".
Okay. But just try one final time. Because at the minute, Ali hasn't been discussed for a long time. Although me and you don't agree, these debates are always fun. Who would you favour big over Ali today?
:huh Haye's unability to box his way in against Wlad had to do with his lack of technique, not lack of heart. The constant baiting and feinting was his strategy to create an opening, but unfortunately it didn't work because Wlad controlled the distance too well. I think it was very evident that Haye tried. Wlad has a history of lackluster performences. This time an awful effort was combined with a decent opponent, and that's what there is to it. When game, he has defeated opponents a lot better than Fury in speed, reflexes and ring IQ. The Haye fight was the last where I saw him display any quickness to speak of. The skillwise peak version of Wlad sometimes calculated that the opponent didn't have the power to hurt him. He's one of the hardest punching boxers of all time, and swift in his movements before he got old. Surviving against that by dancing around for twelve rounds would be tough, even for a genious. Ali could probably pull it off, but he would need to be very dominant when he went on the offence, because when Wlad doesn't feel the need to back down he launch some very painful blows in the exchanges. Maybe Ali could cause him to malfuction with his upper body movement combined with shots Wlad didn't expect. I believe the physical peak version of Wlad would have punched himself out against shadows. Would be a cool fight until then, though :hey Fury didn't break Wlad mentally before the fight. Claiming that is nothing short of creating an urban myth. Fury was expected to be another tomato can, nothing more.
Thats totally false. Wlad is the very definition of a perfectionist . He never enters the ring anything less than 110% . Wlad vs Haye was the best Wlad you ever saw in the ring. He was movitiated to knock Haye out more than any other fighter he ever faced. That was the biggest fight of his career at the time. His performance looked awful because thats all he had to offer. The performance reached the heights of his ability . Please inform me who Wlad beat who were better , quicker and had a greater ring IQ than Fury?
I think the OP is right. Ali is favoured against bigger, much heavier opponents, but has a real scarcity of them on his record. Yet Joe Louis who thrived against giants is deemed too small to compete in the modern era. Quite baffling, really.
Sure Fury's no knockout artist like Joshua, Klitschko or Haye. But he hits hard enough for Klitschko to respect him. Fury is a heavy handed volume puncher. He slowly takes you down. I don't think Klitschko would have respected Ali's punching power. So he would be more willing to trade with him. If Ali had Haye's gamebreaking punching power it would have been an whole other game, due - but he didn't... And Ali would be the one to stick and move and looking for openings. In my eyes, Klitschko's jab is superior to Ali's and Wlad would catch him more often then Ali would do to him. Plus: Ali would have to avoid the hook or cross at all costs, because it's devastating! 210 pounds versus Klitschko's hook it's just not fair. H2H: Wlad>Ali. The end.
yep, no one should undersell Wlads best abilities, those being commitment and longevity - to say he underperformed in these respects is a joke. He is probably in the top 5 most committed HW champions of all time, which marries well with his arguable top 5 longevity.
He wouldn't fair very good vs Joshua, Wilder and maybe ortiz. Haye vs Ali would be a pickem fight for me. Haye by early tko or ali late tko/decision. Old fighters get so much better every passing year. Idk, haye would be the most talented and possibly most usable power Ali would have ever seen.. I'll expect the usual, ydksab from the trolls that live between here and youtube..