I rank Wladimir's depth and dominance over Foreman’s short but great run. Yes you can say Wladimir was in a weaker era but I still don't think Foreman could replicate Wladimir's run.
No, I understand, I don't find it unreasonable. But this is what i'm asking: You make zero distinguishment between straps and lineage? And the rest of that post describes what I mean if you want a look at that.
I get what you're saying and yeah objectively the Frazier win means more because Foreman beat the man who also happens to be an ATG. But still Foreman in the 70s only made 2 title defences and I don't think the Lineage is enough of an argument to overcome the sheer stats of Wladimir. That's just the way I see it personally even though I'm not a fan of Wladimir's style.
So much talk about Foreman only ever making one title defense but this guy called Ali was about, and before that he was Clay to Liston. How many defenses are people going to make when they meet inspired versions of Clay/Ali. Context.
Holmes & Lewis for sure although there's a bit of question mark how they fair against southpaws but I still don't see either of them losing to Byrd. Ali aswell without the exile.
Holyfield too inconsistent for me and Tyson wouldn't be able to keep his head on straight for 10 years.
I see it the same way, Wlad's long run over quality opposition trump's Foreman's big wins over Frazier and Moorer during his historic comeback. Wlad's run of 18 title defenses would be matched by very few heavies, maybe Ali, Holmes and Joe Louis. You need to be awfully consistent and in shape to real off that many consecutive wins in this modern era.
Tyson was accused of SA. We don't know if that happens in the 2000s. If that doesn't happen he replicates the reign before losing to Fury just like Klitschko. Holyfield would lose to somebody and then regain the belts in a rematch, but he'd certainly do better against Povetkin and Peter. It wouldn't be much different
Yes but Ali was a bit past his prime and Foreman was a huge favourite and fought the wrong gameplan and ultimately lost. Foreman also had a chance to comeback after that loss when Ali was no longer really a factor and ultimately failed aswell.
It was the last time Ali was both great, and in great shape. Foreman screamed from the rooftops for an Ali rematch and Ali wouldn't give him one, despite a second decimation of Joe Frazier. At the end of the day he went lineal 20 years later.
That's a fairly short, conditional list. You must hold Wlad's opposition in much higher regard than me then (which is fine). I can understand your view if it's based on the cumulative odds against achieving such a task. However, I don't think it is a strong position when viewed from the perspective of a case-by-case basis. On the other hand, I doubt Wlad could have retired at the age of 28, taken a 10-year hiatus, returned at age 38 and regained the Lineal Championship at the age of 45. Now, that's something I don't believe could be replicated --- by any of the fighters mentioned, thus far.
That's still not an answer, but maybe i'm explaining it wrong (heh heh). Lineage you are familiar with, the man beat the man beat the man etc. Wladimir never beat the man. When the Ring got into titles it stated that to start a new lineage and lift the Ring title the number one fighter in the world had to fight the number two fighter in the world for that lineage to begin. They packed that in around 2008ish. TBRB picked it up in around 2011. That's the way I see it also. Lineage denotes the real champ, ABCs, what they are doing is naming champions to get money. So they pick out a mix of customers (guys who pay to fight for their on-ramp titles) and guys they think will earn big purses (because they are pocketing a %). Then they've named their champions. So comparing title runs for me is easy. Wladimir has four successful title fights, Povetkin, Leapai, Pulev and Jennings. You're saying that Wladimir had a much longer reign etc. That suggests to me that you are counting Wlad's defeat of Francesco Pianeta a true title fight victory? In the same way that Foreman's victory over Jose Roman was a title victory?