Classic Heavyweight Questions Thread

Well I wont weigh in on all them.

I have taken alot of criticism for this but I actually thought Young beat Ali at least from my viewpoint.

I also definitely thought Spinks won the 1st fight and the 2nd fight could have gone either way.

 

Lotta stuff there, but I'll try (and I'm not sure but I'm thinking Young-Norton was the fight of the year, not Young-Foreman).

Ali deserved the decisions vs. Young (ducking your head through the ropes to avoid punches is no way to take a title) and Norton II but the third fight was a toss-up and I'll go with Shavers in another razor-close fight.

Holmes won deservingly vs. Spoon and was robbed vs. Spinks II, but clearly lost Spinks I. (On the other hand, by the same way Ali won so many toss-up decisions on the 'you-must-beat-the-champ' unwritten rule, Holmes has an argument in the first right.)

Holmes vs. Holyfield was a better effort, but both old men showed well in their own ways.

Holmes-Cooney was more entertaining (Young-Foreman was just kind of bizarre). Holmes should have been farther ahead on the scorecards without deductions. Young definitely beat Foreman, but if you're thinking of Norton I haven't ever scored it but know it was close.

Ranking those next-generation guys by accomplishment, not the potential they didn't live up to (exception Weaver, who overacheived):

1. Weaver
2. Coetzee
3. Dokes
4. Page
5. Tubbs

Potentially, Page could have been an ATG if he had been made of the right stuff.

 

Jimmy Young...W Dec... Muhammad Ali...in rounds (6-5-4 Young)
Muhammad Ali..W Dec.. Earnie Shavers..in rounds (7-5-3 Ali)
Muhammad Ali...Draw...Ken Norton II.. in rounds (6-6-0 Even)
Ken Norton.....W Dec..Muhammad Ali III..in rounds (8-6-1 Norton)
Larry Holmes.. W Dec.. Tim Witherspoon..in rounds (6-5-1 Holmes)
Larry Holmes,,,Draw...Michael Spinks I.. in rounds (7-7-1 Even)
Larry Holmes..W Dec..Michael Spinks II in rounds (8-7-0 Holmes)

 

1. young
2. Ali. but no way in the world Earnie should've lasted 15 with the guy. It really illustrated how far down the ladder Ali had slipped.
3. Draw or Norton shades it.
4.Norton
5. Witherspoon. also had Williams beating Holmes on the cards.
6. Spinks.
6. Holmes.


7.better performance against commander vander; Foreman. I thought the cut saved Holmes from a late stoppage. Evander was making him dig deep and hitting him with lots of combos. Holyfield had to fight a completely different bout after the cut and had to cover up that eye. If he's cut like that in the 6th against Foreman, I think George capitalizes and gets the stoppage win.

8.Cooney fight.

Lots of hype surrounding the guy and Larry took him apart. I thought he should've got rid of Cooney a lot earlier and stepped on the gaspedal a little more, but Larry was a 15 round round fighter and knew how to use 45 minutes to win a fight. That's what he did.
The Foreman/Young bout took place only because Ali said he'd fight the winner in a title rematch. Otherwise, I'm sure the Foreman corner goes after a softer touch and catcher instead of a defensive based fighter. Be that as it may, that was about the last time a DKP fighter did not get the benefit of the doubt on the scorecards. I thought George did better than Norton or Ali against Young and he got the L. Young was an independant fighter and him getting the nod against a Don King fighter in a remotely close scorecard--with a big payday for the next bout--is about lottery ticket odds.

9. Shaky vote for Page.

Probably a prime Dokes that weighed in at 206 looked like the best fighter of the bunch,though. But his ballgame changed when he put on a few pounds and stopped using his legs in like 80 or 81. A heavier Dokes was about 25% less effective, to me anyway. Tubbs was good but was never going to be the #1 guy out there and stay that way. All these guys had warts though and Weaver interestingly enough strung together the longest run at the top than any of them.