Why is he hated basically? He's adequate in most areas, is vulnerable but tough and has a good resume really. His only loss came to a massive WW with an iron chin and immeasurable workrate who probably had..well, we ALL know about that. Let's say Cotto retires tomorrow. How is he remembered and what category does he belong? Is he in the sam vein as Gatti (not stylistically but in terms of category, i.e D class; C class ;B Class; A(TG) Class??? How would he fare with ANY ATG WW's. Are there any he could beat? What is he inadequate at? I've come here because I actually think Cotto is a good fighter, who has beaten a lot of different styles and varying degrees of talent, yet he seems to get a lot of critcism and SOMEHOW is ranked below Nonito Donaire in the current Ring P4P rankings. Is that just because he's an Arum fighter? I want/need/am curious about a Classic forum response to this:good
I don't think I'd favor him over any ATG's at either 140 or 147. He's a good all arounder, a good technician, but he's just lacking in certain areas that would really see him put to the test against the greats. He's not really strong enough in any key areas to hold enough of a stylistic edge over any I can think of. Just a good, solid fighter, far from great IMO.
So which kinda' bracket would you put him in Pea? For instance, it's clear that you wouldn't favour him over a Benitez, Gavilan, Hearns, Leonard, Robinson etc etc I think you'd also pick someone like......Quartey for instance over Cotto. So, who WOULD Cotto beat?
To me he is about on the same level as an Oba Carr. Unlike Oba, Miguel is a guy lucky to come around at an opportune time and has had a more successful career as a result. His lack of elite stamina, defence, chin and a propensity to cut make him a rather vulnerable target and I don't really see him beating any ATG's at 140-147 that I can think off. Perhaps he beats a Mark Breland sort on a good night, though even there I'd probably make Miguel an underdog.
I agree with Pea.He's a good solid fighter and that's hardly a bad level to be at despite what fanboys will tell you. I think the problem is a lot of weightclasses seem to be going through a bit of a dry period as far as having a truly top-tier talent in them.So we have seen fighters who may not be bad, but still had a lot of obvious flaws or things to prove get hyped more than they would have otherwise done.Pavlik, Hatton and Taylor are prime examples of that.Chad Dawson is well on the way as well.Cotto is about the best of that bunch imo.
I guess the Mosley win isn't as good as I first thought then. Cotto has a stellar list of victims, although I wouldn't think of rating him H2H against ATG 140lbers, he seems much more durable since he made the move up to WW. But then, that is a strong division history wise, so yeah, I guess I see where you guys are coming from. Still, I think Cotto will prove himself as a very good fighter. I assume you guys are thinking Pac is gonna' destroy him? Would your opinions change if Cotto WERE to beat Pac? I personally think he's going to be too strong for Manny and break him down with body shots very early on and stop him around the th/5th round. Maybe that's just because I am unconvinced of Manny's ability to take a shot at the higher weights??? Anyways, thanks for the contributions thus far boys :good
I understand what you mean entirely, I was actually thinking the same thing myself recently (the infamous Robinson! Monzon! Hagler! PAVLIK!!! thread is the most obvious indication :rofl) but I think Cotto's list of names is good. And considering how he beat them, impressive too. I'm just surprised, I thought he was being underrated, I guess he's being completely overrated and I will have to re-evaluate what I appear to have witnessed. Maybe my opinion won't change, but if he is as average-to-decent as you guys say I must have made a glaring error :think
I think we should all wait to see how his career progresses before we put the jury out on the Miguel Cotto. In the event he beats Manny Pacquiao, and gets another win over Mosley, his stock will rise again. Both fights I favor him in, by the way.
Most likely, but Mark isn't beyond a poleaxing himself if Cotto lands right on him. Would probably have to soften him up first to get the job done and Miguel's own defensive flaws will probably see him undone before that time, but if they fought a series I could see Miguel getting a win.
Is he on the same level as say............Lloyd Honeyghan? How would that fight go, if The Ragamuffin Man that beat Curry turns up. Would his unrlenting offence do Cotto in? Or was Curry truly weight-drained that night and a healthy Cotto would fare better? This is less about resume and more about Cotto's skillset I guess. I thought he was well-rounded, but it's turning out that most of the knowledgable posters think he's a jack of all trades, master of none. Although seeing as Azumah Nelson was described as that recently, that might not be as much of an insult as it might seem.
Skillset wise, I think Miguel Cotto has a lot going for him. He has good power at 147lb, and I think his Boxing ability has been impressive thus far. He outboxed Mosley for the majority, in my opinion, and I think it was his ability to work effectively on the backfoot that got him to the finishing line against Joshua Clottey. His heart will no longer be in question, he could have easily took the easy way out when he got the horrendous cut over his eye. He was half blind for the majority of the fight. The things that work against him will be pivitol if he comes up against ATG WW's, though. He can be hit quite easily, and he has reacted badly to when he has been hit. Judah had him badly hurt, and he was most effective at 140lb. We all know what happened when he fought Torres, but I think his punch resistance has been proven with his move up in weight. Cotto has good punching power, good combinations, and is a good boxer. He's just a little bit fragile, and when your defence is as suspect as Miguel's clearly is, that can be a problem.
Cotto reminds of a mini Frazier in a sense. He's a good workrate and power but he is a little fragile like Frazier but he also has the heart to continue. He's a good alot of things but he is not great yet. We still should wait until his career is over until we pass further judgement about his career.
No shame in getting rocked by Torres though, he is a very big puncher. IMO, I think the Torres fight is one of the best examples of Cotto's talent, how he comes back from two seperate rounds of a ferocious barrage from Torres, who was undefeated at the time (but a late sub and admittedly untested) As you say, might be worth waiting to see what he ends up like once he retires. Pac might smash him in the same way he smashed Hatton (HUGHLY UNLIKELY IMO) and we will then know something else about Cotto. He may smash Pac so bad he only gets the 'Pac was small and hadn't fought a living body since Marquez at 130' excuse.....who knows, but thanks for the input so far guys.
Well there are different degree's of well-roundedness.Cotto is a guy who i would say veers between decent\ok to good at most things. I've described Nelson as a jack of all trades before, but that's just lazy phrasing on my part, though the overall sentiment is meant.I'd say Nelson was an excellent\great fighter who had terrific physical ability(far superior in that regard to Cotto)especially strength.But on the more technical sides he wasn't really great at any one thing(certainly no master boxer-puncher, nor a great educated pressuring fighter), usually applying a varied approach that would change depending on the opponent, often needing a rematch to get right as his career went on.a different level of fighter to Cotto, but if i were offering a quick description of him when talking aobut the very highest levels of fighter at feather\junior light, a jack of all trades style is a good descpriotn of his approach imo. Whereas Cotto is more a very solid good fighter with straight up no truly notable attributes.