Frazier vs. Marciano

I agree that Frazier might have done better then Marciano.

If Frazier fought these same boxers in that era, he too would have those so called 1 punch KO's.

Listen I respect everyones opinion, and no one knows for sure what would have happened. I just think that Joe fought the better opponents and if they changed positions, Joe would have done better then Rocky against his opponents.

 

Matthews it took 2 hooks but Matthews was out on his feet with the 1st

2 fights vs Walcott 1 punch KO's, when he ko'd Layne he also severed 4 of laynes front teeth at the nubs....Marciano almost killed the game Carmine Vingo

 

Here is what Dempsey had to say

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

Where the power came from might be best illustrated in a letter I received from a doctor who works with internal medical problems and trauma. He told me this: "Now what determines the power of a punch? I mean the formula… The effect of a punch is calculated by the energy applied at the sight of the hit. So the kinetic energy of Marciano's punch, that is the degree of damage the punch would generate, is equal to 1/2 mass x velocity x velocity (1/2mv2). Rocky's was equal to the mass of the arm plus the weight he shoved forward with body weight. Next, he hit in close. As your arm moves forward the time from beginning to end increases as you increase the distance of the thrown punch. Since velocity = feet per sec, that means the longer the range the less velocity. Now the energy generated is, remember, mass times vel x vel. Well if your punches are so much shorter, traveling only a few inches, your velocity is incredible! And the transmitted energy at impact is enormous! That calculation of energy is the destructive force (damage) to the body. Basically he broke his opponents up inside. Had George Foreman been a swarmer, he would have been a better fighter. He was a slugger. But as strong as he was he hit from too far away. Frazier was not as powerful as Marciano. He had a similar style, but didn't hit as hard (didn't use shifting weight, etc)."

This generation of power to the point of impact was described by boxing writer Nat Tashman in the July 1986 issue of Boxing Beat:
"Considering the weight advantage Rocky gave away to opponents, few seem to know the key to his power. Fully believing in his ability to take a punch and confident he couldn’t be knocked out, he’d wade in to position himself as close as he could get. Then, like lifting a weight, he’d plant his muscular, stumpy legs and thighs, and swivel-hip his punch. At that point, he was delivering his full 187 pound, adrenaline-loaded wallop for the lights-out contact."

 

What did some REAL experts think about Marciano as a fighter?


"What's so often forgotten is that Marciano was truely a great fighter. It was his will to win that made him unbeatable." Archie Moore

"I had a bad weakness I kept hid throughout my career. I didn't like to be crowded, and Marciano always crowded his opponents. That's why I say I could never have beaten him." Joe Louis, May, 1990 issue of Boxing Illustrated

"Naturally, the first thought that comes to mind would have to be Muhammad Ali. Ali is more my time. But before my time, it would have to be Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano." Marvin Hagler when asked to name the greatest fighter of all time.

"Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him." George Foreman on why he placed Marciano behind Louis as second greatest heavyweight of all time.
________________________________________________________________
"Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Rocky Marciano is second only to Louis." Joe Frazier
________________________________________________________________
"Well, let’s face it. He never got licked. Undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. I mean, how much better can you do than that?"
"Marciano is the most underrated heavyweight of all time. He had so much more than they ever gave him credit for. He was capable of getting those bigger, heavier guys and destroying them." Angelo Dundee.

"This man was one of the greatest champions ever. He refused to accept defeat. And nobody beat him." Sonny Liston.

 

I disagree here. I would take the 1952 Walcott, 37 year old louis, and june 1954 version of charles over any of those guys.

 

I have to agree..

 

The question was about toughness though. Can anyone dispute that Chuvalo, Bonavena and Quarry were tougher than Louis, Walcott and Charles (not talking about greatness)?

Frazier did chop down 2 out of 3 of them, which should be considered an achievement. He got rid of Chuvalo in 4 rounds, a feat which only George Foreman repeated and twice stopped Quarry on cuts, seemingly having him on his way down.

 

I don't. Like "TheGreatA" stated:

Chuvalo, Bonavena and Quarry were tougher than Louis, Walcott and Charles at that time in their careers. If you asked me about prime for prime, who was better, then that would be different.

 

I am not going by cosmetics. It's the numbers, if Joe Frazier has nearly has 20 pounds more muscle than Marciano, who is stronger? Well my experience on the High School weightlifting tells me that the guy with more muscle lifts more than the guy who doesn't have as much, therefore he is stronger. I see what you are trying to get at but that doesn't apply here.

 

Jack Dempsey clearly didn't know what he was talking about. 1953? He was senile by then, let's be honest.

 

As time goes on, there are fewer and fewer fans that remember Marciano. Still plenty of fans that remember Frazier. Well I remember both real well. My view is that while I am a big fan of both, Marciano would win it. Why? Because all the things that made Joe great, Rocky as even better at. He was stronger, more durable, punched harder and was even more iron willed than Frazier. I know it would be a tough fight but in the end, my VIEW IS Marciano would prevail. I think TKO somewhere around round 11.

 

People become too obsessed with power. Sure maybe Marciano hits harder but there' more to this fight than that. I disagree that Marciano was more willed than Frazier. Frazier has been through far worse than Marciano has and never quit in a fight. Only his corner quit for him once. Frazier is indeed stronger in my opinion, he had too back up the far more durable fighters in his time.

Anyway, Frazier has the superior handspeed, head movement and applys the heavier pressure. He is more relentless than Marciano and his punches will get there before Rocky's will. Marciano is easy to hit and if he keeps getting hit by Frazier's right uppercut and left hook combination, he'll get marked up or possibly cut to the point where it'll be stopped.

Now a cut stoppage is not out of the question here but the more likely scenario is after frazier finds himself down and behind early, he'll punish Marciano down the stretch and stop him late.