Georges Carpentier - Evaluate

WRONG AGAIN M!

It was a fix that was reversed by the Siki camp,or rather by the Senegalese himself.It is well documented .

 

Siki took no part of taking a dive, hence it was a REAL FIGHT.

Saying it was a fix implies a predetermined winner, McVey. In this fight, that was not the case at all. If you make a mistake, just move on.

 

I said Carpentier was a good fighter ,never said he was great ,though as I stated Tunney and Loughran rated him,if you think they did that to big themselves up ,thats your opinion.I'm sure everyone on here was grateful that you did share you info with us ,I am.
The Orchid Man did have a vast influence on European boxing but we are more concerned with his ability in the ring ,not whether he slept with Mistinguettt, or dressed smarter than Chevalier.Carp's early defeats to Dixie Kid ,Papke , and Klaus can be excused I think he was a 17 and 18 year old teenager. I beleive Deschamps idea was if he saw his boy was in over his head he would have no qualms about pulling him out in those early fights ,You can correct me if I'm wrong.
Carpentier's fight with Jeannette although a losing one suggests he was more than a media creation IMO. ps When is the Greb book coming out?
ps Afte reading the "Cinderella Man "I notice you received fullsome praise from the author for helping him with his research,as I said earlier you do your homework.

 

Thats the point. It was a fix. Siki was supposed to take a dive and he ended up double crossing Carpentier and made a real fight out of it and ended up stopping Carpentier. The fact that Carpentier was having his fights arranged in such a manner is definately a knock on his career.

 

It was a pre arranged tank job but Siki went back on the agreement supposedly because Carpentier began to take some liberties with him.I.E FIX. NOW DO YOU GET IT?.
Christ! its been explained 3 times by Klompton and myself atsch

 

Georges was a superstar in his day.

 

Do you have the address of the young lady in your avatar ? I have somehting I would like to give her.

 

I know that story, but that's not what you had said. You said it was a "fix". Whether or not there were efforts to fix the fight or not, or one guy had "agreed" to throw the fight, the fact is the fight was a real fight and played out to a real result.

Hence not a fix.

 

The result, which is not good for carpentier, is the same. His management and the people who bankrolled him were involved in fixes to maintain his image. Period. Did it come back to bite them in the ass? Yes. But the fact of the matter is that money was paid to Siki to take a dive in a fight in which he really had no other qualification for getting a title shot other than the fact that he was willing to lay down. You can spin it anyway you want but the fight was shady period end of story. That combined with rampant rumors of a Levinsky fix, obvious dives by Grundhoven and Townley (who goes down more than once without even being hit), poor decisions on his behalf (Lewis) and friendly officiating (Smith, Kid Lewis, and Cook), as well as his penchant for trying to win the easy way when things werent going his way- (Klaus, Papke, Tunney, Gibbons, and others) and it doesnt really speak well for his greatness. My guess is that had there been espn and hbo back in the 10s and 20s people would have tired of his act very quickly. The fact that the world was a lot bigger place in that era and media wasnt nearly as widespread added to the curiousity factor and contributed to making him such a box office draw.

 

Siki did not try in the earlier rounds ,until the Frenchman took liberties,any fight where one or both parties is not giving of his best ,but acting to a prearranged arrangement is a fix in my book.If you need to call it a straight fight thats your perogative ,for me it was a" barney".

 

This is how I see it as well. For those who have not seen the fight Carpentier vs Siki was not a fix! It was a war. Remember this was a 20 round fight. So there was a feeling out process early.

There might have been some talk about a pre-fight fix, but it was very real in the ring.

Here is a clip of the fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2mXqc1uLKk.

 

McVey... I hope its my phone number you are hoping to pass on to her....

:hey

 

what makes you so special,what about me :hey:yep:tong:tong:tong

 

Just to clarify there was some writings that the fight was supposed to be a fix, but it was not a fix in the ring. It was a real fight as you said. That was my point. The ring action was on the level.

If it was a fix, Carpentier wins. I also agree that any fighter who claims he took part in a fixed fight should have their career knocked, as you never know what fighters took dives for him. This includes real ring legends such as Joe Gans, Jack O'Brien, Jack Johnson, and Jake LaMotta.


I tend to beleive the double cross in alleged fix fight is an advantage for the person who is doing the double cross. If one person expects the other person to wilt, he does not train as hard. As soon as the guy supposed to take a dive opens up, the other guy is open to an unexpected heart check.

 

If you include Johnson, as well you may, you must include Ketchel because he was party to the fix,and double crossed his opponent So did Burns against O Brien.Johnson agreed to carry Ketchel,as did Robinson with several opponents ,the difference was that Ketchel diverted from the script,excited by the pro White crowd he got frisky ,gambled and was starched. TommyRyan did not train seriously for Kid McCoy beleiving him to be ill, McCoy showed up in top shape and gave Ryan a lacing.He did the same thing with Choynsky.
. Corbett's fight with McCoy was a fix ton the subject of OBrien,the November 1961 issue of the Ring carried an article by Dan Daniel on the subject of O Briens fixed fights,OBrien stated that nearly all of them were fakes..O Briens fight with Joe Walcott is generally considered to be a fake. Question is how many careers do you want to knock?
Armstron is widely beleived to have let Ross go the distance . Many say Charles took it easy on Louis. Holmes on Ali .Ike Williams did not want to ko Bob Mont gomery ,he wanted to punish him but Montgomery fell too early for Ikes liking . If a fighter is not going all out is the fight a fix?
How many bouts between the Black Dynamite crew of Langford. Jeannette and Mcvey were all out ? And how many were glorified sparring sesions?Where would you put them?
Its on record that Jim Jeffries had a substantial bet on Fitz in their first encounter,after the fight he was open about it he saw it as an each way bet."If I lose I wil be able to use the money ,and if I win I wont need it."No one doubts Jeff tried his best ,but it is circular logic at the least.You would have to add a few of Abe Atells bouts as he carried opponents and also lost some for the benefit of gambling coups in rematches ,this occurred in some of Jimmy Carters fights too.I'm afraid you are going to down grade an awful lot of fighters .