Harry Greb books

I didnt want to say anything but since someone else has hinted at it Im going to have to call bull**** on your fathers story Burt. This is obviously your fathers attempt at tying himself to another fictional story about Greb and Olive Thomas that appeared in James Fair's book. If one does the math Fair's story doesnt jive with the timeline he places it in. Olive Thomas had been dead some 6+ years by the time of Fairs story. As someone pointed out Thomas died in 1920, Greb had been happily married for over a year at that point. Thomas herself was married to Jack Pickford in a rather tempestuous relationship but the timelines between Greb spending time on the East Coast (where Olive spent most of her time after moving away from Pittsburgh in 1914 or so) just dont match. Its more likely that Fair bridged the connection between Greb's supposedly (but overstated) wild lifestyle and Thomas' well documented wild life in order to draw a rather weak comparison between the two. Id hate to say it Burt but my guess is your dad read Fairs book, or at least that portion of it and decided to attach himself to it.

 

Klompton, I am sure that my father who statred to drive a cab in 1917,
never read James r Fair's book...He would mention picking up Greb and Olive Thomas to my mom who was a fan of Olive Thomas...I heard him tell us about this and it meant little to me at the time...I only related this
tale as it pertained to Harry Greb...I know nothing about Greb's private life
and I have no reason to doubt my long deceased fathers veracity...
My dad hacked those days long ago,nightclubs, speakeasy's and what did he have to gain by relating this unimportant moment ?

 

Just like the unrecorded bout you remember seeing between Ray Robinson and Bobby Dykes that there is absolutely no mention of anywhere... No offense Burt but a lot of times nostalgia seems to get the better of you and this is definately one of those cases. Had Greb been stepping out with the "it" girl of that era, Olive Thomas, it would have made the sports pages, the gossip columns, and the stage and screen sections. Its a myth and nothing more. The two were from Pittsburgh, both were reputed to have a wild life, and both died young, hence they made the perfect connection for James Fair to further sensationalize his already sensational (fictional) magazine articles and bio. Yet you think its out of the realm of possibility that your dad read one of these and co-opted it? Youve said on here many times how Greb was your dads favorite fighter and yet you mean to tell me that he never read any of these stories which were published in popular magazines during his lifetime or James Fair's own book published in New York City??? Its totally out of the realm of possibility that your dad might be wrong on this? You think that somehow between the three busiest years of both their lives, when Greb was literally all over the country from week to week, in the Navy, getting married, having baby, chasing three championships, etc etc. Not to mention all of the chaos that was going in Olive Thomas' life several hundred miles away long before Greb began to frequent the East Coast that they somehow wound up together partying it up (long before Greb's partying days had even been dreamed of) in your dads cab... Theres a bridge real close to were you grew up that Id like to sell you. Otherwise this is just a story by some unknown guy on a message board who likes Greb regurgitating the same tired and false stories created by Fair whose alleged Olive Thomas incident took place by his own math 6+ years after Thomas' death and several months after Greb's.

 

Klompton,I was relating what my father told us many years later...He did not read Fairs book as my dad had one glass eye and bad eyesight in the other by the 1940s...What he told us I believed at that time...Why would he mislead us years later? He would talk about celebrities he drove in the flapper age all the time...You do not know what Greb
did all those early years ...Maybe his fight record ,but he could have gotten together
with the actress Olive Thomas, in NY for a night out...He once was described by a fighter of the time of Greb ,Larry Gaines who was in awe of Greb. "Greb was a tomcat
who fought like an alleycat ".Yes married or not...Greb was reputed to have a great libido
. Another thing thatyou brought up for know good reason not pertaining to this subject.
Kompton, I did see Ray Robinson fight Bobby Dykes in the Coney Island Arena in the early 1950s...It was after their bout in Chicago in 1950...If you believe me or not is irrelevant to me, for I know what I saw that day...It was the tall orthodox Bobby Dykes
against Robinson ,probably their second fight, that is not listed in boxrec...But I saw the fight and can recall it was a dull fight , and things leading up to the bout...
In short I innocently recalled something my dad related to my family about he as a cabbie picking up Harry Greb and a long forgotten Bwy actress,and driving them to a club
before the 1920s, as if I said that the earth is flat...Thou protest too much...
And yes I also saw Jake Lamotta losing a decision to Ossie Harris in the old Eastern Pkwy Arena in Ny .That fight is not listed in record books...But I saw it....

 

Yes I am nostalgic, and also tell the truth...Nothing wrong with nostalogia
mixed with honesty, I think.

 

If the biggest name south of the heavyweight division fought a top contender in the largest city in the united states with more newspapers than any city in the united states dont you think someone other than you would have mentioned it?

You may like Greb, and he may have been your dad's favorite fighter, but I can say with absolute confidence that Ive forgotten more about Greb than you or your dad combined ever imagined, or made up (in the case of Olive Thomas) and I can tell you with a fairly high degree of certainty that the odds are strongly against Greb ever having anything to do with Olive Thomas to the degree you imply. Furthermore, your statement that Greb, married or not, had a great libido shows your ignorance and the level to which you and your father have bought into the stories related by your hometown newspapers (many of which made those stories up or embellished incidents that happened much later in Greb's life. During his marriage Greb was a devoted husband, a family man, and a good father. To imply that he was stepping out on his wife with no other proof than the statement of Larry Gains of all people who MAYBE knew Greb in passing (and thats a big maybe) is pretty sad and shows that you have bought into the myths that have been perpetuated through the years. We have gone over this before and I think its pretty well established that you would rather believe a good story told by Dan Daniels or Nat Fleischer than a less interesting one told by someone who actually knew Greb. Its a lot more interesting to hear that Greb never trained, drank like a fish, ****ed his way through countless women, and fought any sonovabitch in the house. The truth is Greb trained harder than most, looked on his sport as a profession and approached it as such, was a devoted husband who was shattered by his wifes death, rarely drank, and didnt start his womanizing (which was much more limited than what has been written) until well after Mildreds death. He worked his ass off to provide for his daughter, a thought which greatly occupied his mind, particularly as he got older. But you go on, like I said, weve already established that you never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

Klompton, I do not for a moment doubt your knowledge of Harry Greb is supreme. Not for a moment do I call myself an authority on Harry Greb.
If you say about Harry Greb and Olive Thomas never meeting in real
life is true,than my dad erred in his memory,and so did I...Conceivable
that that event never occured as he related this years later. I concede that he was talking about a different pair of celebrities years later...
But he was a darn good man and I should not be chastised ninety years
or so later after so innocuous a statement on ESB...After all we are products of what we hear, and what we read in the sport pages and
anecdotes, about fighters of the past. What we know of the past which
we have not seen is what contemporaries have written is it not?
It is up to historians as you to correct if possible innaccuracy's that have become legend to the masses who innocently read them...But I believe with a little more tolerance...
As for The Ray Robinson/Bobby Dykes fight that I and several thousand fans saw at the Old Coney Island Veledrome in the early 1950s, I stick to my guns...As i have posted often I believe it was their second bout, not
listed in the record books for whatever reason, but I saw it...Possibly bobby Dykes of Florida was a last minute substitute for that bout,who knows...I remember vividly that the crowd was waiting for Ray Robinson to arrive as he was late. I recall looking down from the top of the bleachers
waiting for his arrival. When finally Robinson arrived we on the top bleachers saw his Fuscia colored Cadillac stop and Robinson and his handlers left the car for the dressing room.We let out a roar so the rest of the impatient crowd would no of Robby's arrival..This I saw with my own eyes, and it is frustrating to me not seeing this event in the record books
so many years later...This is my "Bermuda Triangle "...

 

Another thing off my chest...You accuse me of "not letting the truth get in the way of a story".That I will not accept. I have not an iota to gain from distorting the facts. I tell it like I see it,and if I am innacurate it
is not to gain a profit...I love boxing and it's glorious past as you do and have nothing to GAIN from from embellishing the truth. NOTHING!!!

 

No one ever said you had anything to gain but you have shown several times on here that if it was written by Fleischer or Daniels you will believe it, regardless of whether the facts refute this or not. You have heard this stories repeated so many times that the stories themselves have become more important to you than what actually happened. You forget that both Fleischer and Daniels cut their teeth in the era of yellow journalism where those guys were taught and instructed to make the story as sensational as possible because thats what sold copy. They took that and ran with it which is why within the last 10 years or so, due to diligent research MANY boxing myths that have oft been repeated, which originated with guys like Fair, Fleischer, Daniels etc have been totally debunked. I understand why you hang on to these stories. They are what you grew up with and what got you interested in the sport and as such they are extremely important to your view of something you love. That being said it doesnt make the stories you regurgitate here any more true.

 

Klompton, is it beyond the possibilty Harry Greb got into a cab with Olive Thomas? They do not have to be dating to get into a cab with one another. Or perhaps Greb got into a cab with a girl who looked like Thomas?

 

I think the implication in a couple of Burt's statements was fairly obvious, especially in light of the Fair articles.

 

People can sensationalise things. If he just got in a cab with her, people could jump to conclusions, or someone who looked like her.

 

This scenario rings true as Grebs wife was, like Olive, a looker.

 

My father for the last time never read Give Him To The Angels by Fair...What he related to us amongst other cabbie experiences ,when he would reminisce, was so unimportant in the scheme of things,and which IF not correct, doesn't warrant besmirching my veracity...No way...Life for me ,as other seniors too, is too short for such small issues to fret about...

 

And I don't regurgitate..I take Alka-Seltzer...