He's obviously nowhere near as well rounded a mixed martial artist and therefore not as wholly talented in the context of the sport, but IMO Noons is a better boxer than Silva pound for pound.
@ calling the punch deliverd during the bell a violation of the rules. Did you even watch Strikeforce: Houston?
I agree; I don't think it was dirty, but clearly after the bell. There should have been a medical stoppage to let him recover, or even maybe even a no contest; harsh on KJ, but it shouldn't have been handled as if nothing happened.
Yes. Yes I did. And he dropped Gurgel after the bell at the end of rd 1. That shot basically knocked Gurgel out. He was clearly done. Did you watch Strikefarce: Houston?:think
You think it was humanly possible to pull the punch as it was halfway to its target when the bell first became audible? :think Did you go to a school where they couldn't afford to have physics in the curriculum?
He could've tried. He's a PROFESSIONAL. Part of his job is acting like it. He showed how unprofessional he really is and suffered no consequences. As far as physics go, that point leads to nowhere. If the bell rang, then he throws the hook, what does that mean to you? He didn't throw it at the end of the round, he threw it after. The downed knee also showed Noons either isn't aware of the rules (which I doubt he isn't aware of. Its not like he comes from old school MMA, so he knows what and not to do), or was clearly trying to get in a cheap shot. If you wanna debate the late round punch is fine, but what about the knee? Can you debate that?
Yes, actually. His last several fights were in Muay Thai, not MMA. I won't profess to know the specifics of rules in Muay Thai regarding downed opponents, but knees are certainly a big part of his arsenal and especially so in his recent endeavors. In MMA, when an opponent is on the ground after a knockdown you are encouraged to hit him if it isn't immediately stopped. It's a minor distinction to be made that in American MMA promotions you're supposed to use your hands and not feet to do so. Fighters get into habits, and at that moment he freaked out due to the utter incompetence of the ref and, wondering what the hell he had to do to poor Gurgel to invite a stoppage, his instincts (recently tinted by his MT experience) took over. Also, not even every MMA org illegalizes knees on downed opponents. There is a rather large school of thought that they oughtn't be, period - even Dana White has gone on record saying that knees to the head of a downed opponent ought to be permitted.
Now you're making **** up. They showed several replays. The sequence was as follows: 1) Noons begins to throw his punch. 2) The bell rings. 3) The punch lands. It's one thing when a fighter loads up on a punch after the bell or another event which should cause them to cease punching (ie a knockdown in boxing, which had exceptionally blatant and egregious examples recently in Abraham and especially Bika, who waited a full beat before sizing Mendy up and hitting him). If he's already in the motion it's a matter of "Oh ****ing well. **** happens". You don't fault a fighter for the bell ringing in mid-punch. They don't have clocks in their heads. The referee even says "Fight to the bell". Any attack launched after the bell can be viewed as a foul. Any attack launched prior to the bell but landing during or after? Collateral damage. Oh ****ing well.
It wasn't Muay Thai. It was MMA. You see? That's part of that PROFESSIONAL thing I was talking about. So that means you would excuse him for kicking or kneeing in a Boxing match. Stop it. Its nonsense. Absolute nonsense. He's in a cage, he's not wearing Muay Thai gloves, he's wearing MMA gloves. Ok I understand you have a man crush on the boy and that's cool with me, but don't sit there at your keyboard and act like that knee was excusable, and bring up his past Muay Thai fights. With that 2nd point I highlighted, you are correct. BUT NOT WITH A KNEE. As far as that "large school of thought" that's exactly what it is and only that. Its NOT a rule in American MMA that I'm aware of. How many times to REAL professionals know not to knee their opponents in that position, and if they are, they're givin warnings. So until its permitted, ITS NOT A RULE. It was to late to warn Noons because Gurgel was already out, so he should've been DQ'd or it should've been an NC. Illegal blows made the difference.
Illegal blows did NOT make the difference!!!! Even the hook that landed didn't make a difference!!! The right hand knocked him the **** out COLD. He was out on his feet before the hook even landed - that was just icing on the cake. He was plum out and the ref (the truly unprofessional one here) just let it keep going. That's the real problem here. He should not have taken any more punishment after the knockdown - not from any kind of blow legal or not...not from knees, not from fists, not from kicks. It was over. He was KTFO by a right hand (a right hand and left hook combo if you want to be technical about it, even though the hook was academic and just happened to land quicker than he could fall) - even the commentators were aghast at it not being immediately stopped on the heels of the KD.
You clearly are not paying attention to me, or you lost me, so I'll clear things. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CLEAN UP HOOK AFTER THE RIGHT HAND IN RD 2. THAT WAS A COMBINATION SETUP AND PART OF NOONS JOB. I WAS REFERENCING TO THE HOOK AFTER THE BELL IN RD 1. THAT WAS THE SHOT THAT CHANGED THE FIGHT. THAT WAS THE SHOT THAT REALLY KNOCKED GURGEL OUT. HE CLEARLY WAS NOT THE SAME FIGHTER IN RD 2 BECAUSE OF THAT LATE HOOK IN RD 1. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME NOW? IN RD 2, THE FIGHT SHOULD'VE BEEN STOPPED AFTER THAT RIGHT HAND, LEFT HOOK COMBINATION. THE REF WAS **** POOR, AND NOONS KNEE TO A DOWNED OPPONENT WAS INEXCUSABLE. UNDERSTAND?
Yes. The hook after the bell to end round 1 was barely after the bell. No action was nor should have been taken regarding that punch. It wasn't an "illegal blow". It's just dumb luck that the bell sounded while the punch was on its way inexorably to its target. If anything, you could argue Gurgel was saved by the bell there. Did it affect his punch resistance in the next round? Sure, that's a fair point. It wasn't like Noons got a "freebie", though. Gurgel himself hadn't dropped his hands or ceased fighting. He threw a combo, and Noons threw a counter on the heels of that combo - a counter that happened to be a split second after the bell but oh well. When it's that close a call it isn't and shouldn't be viewed as a foul. We are in total agreement about the ref being **** poor. To me, that is the much bigger issue than Noons throwing a knee that currently happens to be illegal under Strikeforce's rules. Put it this way: had the referee just stood there stupidly while Noons threw brain-damaging, career-shortening punches to the head of a downed Gurgel, that would have been acceptable compared to Noons trying to just finish the damn thing ASAP to be merciful and happening to forget a rule in his hurry to do so? That knee isn't anywhere near as hazardous to Gurgel's health as would have been him getting pounded in the head by KJ's fists for the rest of the round. That would have been obscene.
A punch landed after the bell should require action to be taken. As it happened outside of the rules. Since it was not intentional, it should be treated like an accidental headbutt or something similar.