How the hell does Rocky even reach Ali? I'm talking about a prime or near prime Ali. Way too much height, reach and most importantly speed for Marciano to overcome. Rocky was hell if stood right in front of him as most of his opponents did but a prime Ali would not...not at all. Rocky would spend most of his energy trying to dodge a lightning fast jab and combinations all the while trying to reach and hit Ali..All at 5'10" with a 68" reach. No matter how I try I just don't see it happening. Marciano would be a nightmare for many fighters but not a fast as lightning prime Ali. No way.
Im sure you are being honest to yourself but that is only your opinion. It does not mean you are right. I disagree but it does not make me right. I met Ali quite a few times, loved the guy and I think he was a great fighter but I think he was right he would have his hands full with Marciano, like he did with Frazier but I think Marciano would have better chance pulling the trigger for a KO because of 2 hands Its a matter of Styles I rate Louis # 1 but do I think he can beat everyone below him, No, most of them yes
Did Rocky have an extensive amatuer background like Frazier did? Frazier was an olympic champion with extensive training and experience. Rocky had only 11 amatuer bouts, with hardly any real training. If you give rocky the amatuer background frazier had, the training frazier had as an amatuer, then put rocky in the ring in his 12th pro fight..i think rocky beats him. What if you were to give Frazier rocky's lack of training and lack of amateur experience and throw him in the ring with a 15-0 Eddie Ross and 8-0 Bobby Quinn in his 2nd and 3rd pro fights?
Frazier was beaten in an Amateur bout in the New Jersey Golden Gloves in 1964 and was beaten twice by Buster Mathis before the Olympics. So his Amateur experience wasn't really that Great either. I already went over the record of Eddie Ross. He was 15-0-1, BUT 7 of his opponents didn't even have a bout before facing him. 3 others only had 1 bout and didn't have a single win. Another 2 only had 1 win. That's 12 boxers with only 2 wins total that he fought and one of them was a guy with no bouts that he fought a draw with. The only boxers that had winning records that he fought were both on the downhill slide. One was 4-9 in his last 13 bouts and never fought again after Ross beat him and the other was stopped in his last 3 bouts, and only fought once more.
Frazier was an Olympic champion gold medalist but Bonavena had 22 wins against 2 losses and one of them was to Zora Foley and Oscar was dropped by Foley, Oscar did have a split decison win over Chuvalo but Oscar got aclaim after the Frazier fight, he was not feared before then. It was the pinpoint punchers like Ellis that dropped Oscar 2 times. Frazier only 2 fights before facing Bonavena faced 3-5-2 Al Jones and 3-4-1 Charlie Polite so same as Giley Ferron...How would Marciano had done vs Bonavena at that stage, he would have beaten him...Cream rises to the top
My point wasn't to talk up Ross as a credible opponent, but rather emphasize the point rocky was a very inexperienced raw fighter when he turned pro. Even a 15-0 young club prospect like Ross should be too much for a fighter like Marciano at that stage. He had very limited amatuer experience, he had no trainer(at the time). He was as raw as you get. If we transformed joe frazier to fight under those conditions how does he do? Frazier won the olympic gold medal. That is as far as you can get. It wasn't great, but it was certainly a lot better than rocky's 8-3 record. Rocky's best amatuer fight was his controversial loss to 17-0 highly rated prospect 6'3 Coley Wallace. Point being, Frazier had the much faster start in terms of amatuer experience and world class training. Rocky had a late start, and needed more fights to catch up.
Now your getting silly. Oscar would have been too much for Rocky at that time. In Rocky's 26th bout, he almost lost to LaStarza, so how could he have beaten Oscar in his 12th bout. In his 26th bout, yes, I would say Rocky would have beaten Oscar, but not in his 12th bout.
I agree, BUT Rocky did try out for the Olympic Trails but got injured after one of his bouts and couldn't box on. I wonder what would of happened if he did go on and went on to win the Olympic Gold Medal, and then they found out that he had a Pro bout over a year before.
I think he was also in a peak form or very close to it against Shavers and he took what Shavers brought. A prime Holmes could not take him down. I think the only version of Ali that Marciano This content is protected have stood a This content is protected chance of stopping This content is protected is the This content is protected .
The 80's Ali, Thats kinda of Harsh imo. I give Rocky good chances against the Ali that lost to Spinks and the rematch,. Shavers, Perhaps Thriller Ali, I give Marciano even shot vs FOTC Ali, and maybe the pre prime Ali that fought Moore, toss up vs Liston Ali.
It was about stoppage , not about a decision. Marciano was a light heavyweight. He was strong for his size but still very small compared to Ali . Even smaller than Frazier was. Marciano was knocked down by weaker men than Ali whom were also significantly older than himself when they fought.
Wasn't Marciano seen as someone who would not go very far too crude, too small, lack of experience etc. he would have been seen as a stepping stone for these fighters not the other way around. He suffers still when seen on film as being too crude and would be outboxed by the first decent boxer he fought, of course Walcott, Charles and Louis were master boxers and Rocky defeated each one by knockout.
What's more credible? Ali almost exclusively praising Marciano as his most difficult opponent of past HW champions, or him saying Frazier is the greatest fighter after him after just having fought their third fight? Which would you be in a more balanced perspective? Yeah...