Max Baer Villain Side?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KO KIDD, Dec 27, 2025.

  1. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    Today I was reading Boxing News and they had an article about Max Baer and his villain side. I know his portrayal in Cinderella Man was largely panned as making him seem like too much of a bad guy. However, they cited a 2024 book :
    Then The World Moved On: The Brutal Truth Behind the Max Baer-Frankie Campbell Fight

    The article discussed the author Catherine Johnson's research into that fatal fight and discussed some darker details of the fatal fight and some other behavior from Baer that points to him maybe being closer to the portrayal in Cinderella Man

    I have not read the book and am unsure of any other books by that author. It seems like she did some solid research based on the Amazon description:

    "A variety of original source materials going back a century, were thoroughly investigated and meticulously pieced together, among them newspapers, court transcripts, medical records, genealogical, archival, federal, state, and local records, along with psychological analysis and brain trauma study, as well as interviews with Campbell's family members, former pro fighters, and boxing historians.

    Along with over 1400 cited sources, over 150 rare photos, illustrations, and fight advertisements, the book also discusses the legendary men who made California a boxing mecca in the early Twentieth Century, and the popular venues where fights were held. Woven artfully into the narrative, is how the context of the times, the Golden Age of American Sports, the Roaring Twenties, Prohibition, and the Great Depression, affected the sport, and the lives of the men who molded the game."

    Amazon. "Then the World Moved On: The Brutal Truth Behind the Max Baer-Frankie Campbell Fight." Product description. Accessed May 22, 2024. https://www.amazon.com/Then-World-Moved-Baer-Frankie-Campbell/dp/B0DFJLKLHM.

    Has anyone read this book? Is the Baer vs Campbell fight controversial besides the fact that it produced a fatality?
     
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  2. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    She was on here for a bit when her book first came out. Its on my buy list but im really backed up with my books right now. She's on Facebook and she said as listed above that she was extremely meticulous in her research and that the real Baer was intact much closer to Ron Howard's portrayal without Howard even realizing it. The man sounds like a psychopath according to her. Ill read it eventually.
     
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  3. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Is Catherine Johnson the same person who used to post on various boxing forums/websites (this one, boxrec, etc.) as "Maxie's Gal" years ago (also sometimes signing herself "Cat") and had a Max Baer website?
    She certainly had a strong interest in the Baer-Campbell fight.
    But back then she was very much in love with Maxie.
    I wonder if it is the same person. I'm quite sure it must be.
     
  4. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I've just read the book now.

    I think I can confirm Catherine Johnson was "Maxie's Gal" on these forums a few years ago. And had the maxbaer.org website.

    She's done an impressive complete 180 degree turn regarding Max Baer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2025
  5. Barrf

    Barrf Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Interesting.
     
  6. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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  7. Mandela2039

    Mandela2039 OFFICIAL THREAD DIDDLER banned Full Member

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    Were we wrong all along?
     
  8. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    People have long criticized Max Baer for being a foul dirty fighter.
    His 'killer instinct' wasn't doubted much at the time, after the Campbell fight and after his other top victories (Schmeling notably).
    But he's also been criticized for being a "clown" and a "playboy" and not taking it seriously, and being a "quitter" or not having a real fighter's "heart".

    This could all be true.
     
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  9. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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  10. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Yes perhaps under that playful,madcap
    manner, was a different guy entirely.
     
  11. crixus85

    crixus85 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Check out the podcast “The Boxing Movie Podcast.” Here you’ll hear Catherine Johnson’s motivation for writing the book on Baer, well worth hearing. Must be at least 18 months ago.
    I did a post on it at the time recommending it, which elicited some outrage from fans of The Clown Prince of the Ring!
     
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  12. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I can't say her book lowered my regard for Max Baer as a fighter. Being a remorseless killer isn't a weakness for a boxer, it's a strength perhaps, uncomfortable as that might be for some.
     
  13. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    It's a shame her maxbaer.org site doesn't seem to be around still.
     
  14. Melankomas

    Melankomas Corbett beats your favourite fighter

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    I recall her mentioning that she had thousands of first hand sources in her book, is that accurate? How has it impacted your view of Baer as a person?
     
  15. PrimoGT

    PrimoGT Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    There are 1,402 citation references, yes, mostly contemporary newspapers.

    It hasn't impacted my view of Baer as a person. I suppose he was a flawed human being. But there's a lot of subjectivity involved in taking a wholly negative or a wholly positive interpretation of him and his actions.

    Boxing is a crazy business, especially in those days, and with some very wild people in it.

    If many champion boxers are narcissistic, hedonistic, selfish and sometimes sadistic in their youthful primes, that shouldn't surprise anyone. If Max Baer was one of them, that doesn't surprise me.