greeting burt! I know the impressive resume of Gans...and Leonard but...didn't Benny have 10-20 'no-contests'? What was that all about? You make a good case but my Ray 'shout out' is based on: 85-0 as an amatuer. After the St. Valentine's Day massacre he was 131-1-1! Lost early to LaMotta giving away 16? pounds?? Rematched 21 days later (with basically the same weight difference and completely out-worked his ****) A draw with Basora. Whupped him in a rematch. What do you want with a guy who, basically, fought every 28 days for 13 years? So Ray's amatuer/pro record by Feb. 51 was 216-1-1??!! I've heard the Burley etc. 'duck nonsense' but many of those boys were heading to middle/lt. heavy by that time. IMHO there was no ducking anyone. Lastly, Ray was a welter who moved to middle past prime (and after a brief retirement) and gave us some of the most exciting fights EVER approaching 40 years old at middleweight! He had it all, not to mention the charisma.