Inevitably Joe Frazier's name is mentioned when asked whom Muhammad Ali's toughest opponent was. I go along with this in a purely physically punishing sense,yet it could be put forward that Ken Norton posed more of an enigma. Ali's two victories out of the three fights he had with Smokin'Joe were hard to come by but they were obvious and conclusive. With Norton he scraped a victory in their second,even though I believe Ali was certainly the winner in that one. Even a loyal Ali fan,as I am admit that he was lucky to be judged the winner in the Yankee Stadium rubber match. Both men both deserve to be named as Ali's toughest opponents,just in different aspects.
It amazes me that Norton gets little credit for beating Ali. The fans know Norton defeated Ali twice, but few remember that Norton beat Ali before Ali went on to win his legacy matches with Foreman and Frazier. Norton vs Frazier would have been a heck of a match. I like Frazier in the early 1970's, and Norton in the mid 1970's. Its a pity the two never fought. The winner would have upped his legacy.
Apparently, Frazier used to get the better of Norton in most of their sparring sessions, but those kinds of stories tend to get out of hand, and sparring doesn't prove everything anyway. That said, I'd still pick Frazier. Norton didn't do well with punchers who pressured him, and I think Joe's rapid upper body movement would complicate things even further.
I agree. I think Frazier would beat Norton at their bests, it could very well be a tight decision tho.
Hard to say... From a "raw" or physical point of view Frazier is the most dangerous hands down. His stamina and willpower, combined with his toughness would give Ali a hell of a time every time However, "stylistic-wise" or "smart-wise" I go for Norton. He read Ali like a book and knew how to counter his gameplan and frustrate him. How many fighters can say that? Norton was a clever, skilled fighter who could also hit (remember the broken jab) and also gave Ali a heck of a time. I think this discussion is kind of moot. Both were extremely dangerous for Ali and both were Ali's nemesis in totally different dimensions. LOL. The fascinating thing would be ponder what would Ali had done with a combination of both Imagine a boxer with Frazier's body and Norton's brain or viceversa. Kenny with the stamina and toughness of Joe; or Smoking Joe with the coolness and smarts of Kenny. That would have been Ali's ultimate challenge
I'm not denying that Frazier would convincingly beat Norton prime for prime,but my thread is about whom Ali found the toughest to deal with. Certain styles clash. Norton and Frazier would always push Muhammad to the limit,wheras George Foreman would always knock them both out easily. Ali would permanently befuddle Foreman. So on and so on. As for the second Ali-Frazier fight,this is the beauty of debate. We all sometimes see boxing in different ways. IMO the second fight was the most one sided of the trilogy. Yes Ali clinched a lot,but it was up to Frazier to deal with that. Tony Perez also,albeit by accident did Smokin'Joe a big favour in the second round. I'm not saying Ali would've definitelyknocked Frazier out,but you can't help but wonder. You can't not respect Red Smith,but Ali was never his favourite.
Are you actually Steven Gerrard? Because your clear love for Boing would explain your, ahem, 'moves' that have been all over the papers recently :deal :rofl you might not even be British and that reference might've gone right over your head, Teeto will know :rofl
Frazier was tougher for him, but let's not forget that Ali basically broke Frazier in his losing effort in their first fight. Ali could a long series with Frazier, and although I think he would lose the first one, I think he would always be made favourite to dominate Joe thereafter. It's just the way those two worked! On the other hand, if Ali fought Norton 12 times they would mostly be horrifically close.
For me the Frazier fights were far more punishing for Ali, but Norton came closer to getting the better of Ali.