Hey Bummy, envy your ringside seat at MSG for the Feb 73 Lyle scrap! However, IMO, no way he could ever best a 73-74 Foreman. 1) If Frazier simply out toughed him twice, the second fight a brutal mismatch which Jerry was begging inept ref Joe Louis to stop, how could he have a chance against Foreman; not to mention Jerry could always be out boxed (jeez, Chuvalo was jabbing Quarry to death) and George would, early on, have Jerry on the receiving end of potent jabs before the big lumber came out. 2) If Lyle had fought a pre-Ali Foreman, he would have been on '***** street' inside of two rounds. 3) Jerry after the fluke Shavers ending (he may have won regardless unless Earnie landed one of his patented 'bombs') was almost OUT against journeyman Joe Alexander's left hook in their early 74 bout. 4) NOONE knocks out George Foreman, you've got to give him that. (forget the Zaire 'set up') maybe not a set up but you know what I mean. A post-Ali brain dead George was embarrassing against Lyle but he wound up putting Ron in a "please take me to the hospital" puddle at the end. My $0.02
Quarry had some erratic fights and a bit of a head case at times but I was also ringside to the Shavers fight and they traded but Jerry had an iron chin. In the Frazier and Ali fights it was a matter of styles and speed was a factor. Ali was obviously faster and Frazier not so much but he was beating Jerry to the punch as the fight went on (1st fight) with the Lyle, Shavers and Mac Foster fights, all these men had sufficient power but were slower and Jerry broke them down. I think Foreman had more than the 3 that I mentioned but Foreman 1 gassed easier and threw wider slower shots and could be countered. Ali laid out the blueprint and Young followed, not to say Jerry was a boxer of that quality but take the ability he had and his 2 fisted power and this is not an easy fight for Big George if Jerry is around about round 5 of a fast paced bout. Its all about styles By the way I was at the Alexander fight Joe could crack and i saw sparks fly off Jerry's ass when he hit the ground but he got up and took Big Joe out.....That was one of the hardest shots I seen ringside next to Shavers vs Ellis
Bummy, I've heard that Jimmy vomited after that Shavers shot, did you see that? Tho I'm not saying Ali couldn't have beaten George, the cards were all stacked against Foreman in Zaire. Promotion, intense heat, loose ropes, Muhammad working the entire frenzy of Zaire's populace into thinking Foreman was some sort of 'Uncle Tom'. Don't you think a young, green, George wasn't affected by that? The fight should have been held in the Astrodome but forget that, Ali had the 'stacked deck'. Young followed? Yes, but a brain-dead post-Ali George. IMO Foreman would have first jabbed Jerry to death (possibly cutting him) and then landed bombs that would have had Jerry wanting to continue (as he always did) but simply GONE. My weak $0.02!