If James Toney was there that night against Willard, how would he have done? Would he have successfully defended his title against the same men Dempsey did? Would he have lost to Tunney the way Dempsey did? Could Toney have bettered the resume of Dempsey?
I doubt James Toney would've beaten Jess Willard to be honest with you. Toney was a counterpuncher, primarily. And Toney wasn't a particularly busy puncher. Willard likely outpoints Toney over 10 or 12 rounds, whatever it was sheduled for.
Toney's thin resume against genuinely elite heavyweights, makes it difficult to make particularly bold predictions for him here.
Do you consider old Foreman and Moorer of the 1990s in the same favourable light as you do Jess Willard?
I would consider them to be elite fighters of the era for sure. They might not ever have been the best active fighter, but they legitimately got to the top of the pile.
Technically, Burns was never the lineal champion. He never beat the man, who beat the man. Moorer, Old Foreman and Briggs were technically Lineal champions. However, by this time, particularly after old Foreman openly fought less than the best, the media had no longer considered there to be one champion. In fact a Mike Tyson fight or even a Holyfield, Bowe or Lewis fight was as big or bigger payday. Therefore, this was one of the few periods where the lineal title was devalued (Like the Burns era) and it was not as big a prize as when Willard held it. Spinks definitely should be considered as much as anyone. He beat an aging Holmes, but still a Holmes that was 10 times as good as the version who was competitive in the 90s. Who else from the time was capable of beating that version of Holmes? Cooney, Witherspoon, Berbick, Bonecrusher Smith, Bugner? OUtside of Spinks I cant see anyone doing it until Tyson came along. And even Tyson is in no way guaranteed to beat that version of Holmes. With all this being said, although i think Toney would be the underdog vs willard and there is no way he wins as impressively, some of the other fights might be interesting if hedoes get past willard. Toney vs Carpentier should have Toney winning well. Toney vs Gibbons would be an absolute all time great fight. Toney vs Firpo could very easily turn into a Toney masterclass. Toney might start favourite against Brennan and Miske. And an older Toney vs Tunney, you would think would see Toney giving Tunney more trouble than Dempsey did, though Tunney would still be favourite. Toney Sharkey might be a tough fight. I cant see Toney pulling out the KO, but would be certainly interesting. All in all, while it is unlikely, it is definitely possible that Toney finishes with a better win loss record than Dempsey had.
Well, in the other thread, you said : I'm not sure what you mean they "should never have picked up a title in the 90s" when they were LINEAR champions ...... and it turns out you think "they legitimately got to the top of the pile" and were "elite fighters of the era". They were legit, we agree. I just disagree on the "should never have ..." statement. To say someone should never have been champion appears to undermine their legitimacy, imo.
I'm saying Toney would better his resume. He'd never have been knocked out by Flynn and would have fought those Jack ducked. The Tunney fight is hard to call.