I agree with DFTaylor tbh'... Fair enough, Ward beat Kessler and Froch lost to Kessler but that mean's nothing when you look at it. Just because Ward beat him and Froch lost to him doesn't mean when (and if) Ward and Froch ever come to fight, Ward will win simply because he won Kessler and Froch didn't. If they ever were to fight i think Ward would win, but as far as i can see, The Ring are taking their latest fight's into account, and if you do that you have to put Froch ahead of Ward. Yes Kessler was the favourite at the start of the Super Six, and Ward beat him, but his win's over Green and Bika are shadowed by Froch's win over Abraham alone. Then he's beat Taylor, Pascal (who showed up and beat Dawson who many considered the best LHW in the world) and narrowly lost to Kessler. If you can't understand looking at that, why they've put Froch ahead of Ward you need your head examining
i have explained the haye comment as tounge in cheek. my point about the bias is the way you picked wholes in all off Wards big wins but failed to do so with Lopez...when the exact same claims could be made. I rate the Ward win over Kessler far far ahead of the Lopez win over Marquez. Marquez was a great fight but the key word is "WAS". Wards over Kessler was an A win, Lopez over Marquez was a B win. Ponce De Leon is by far Lopez best win and its not as impressive as the win over Kessler. For me its about the big wins. Which Ward has. His resume beyond that is not amazing but its not poor so he stays ahead of Froch who lost clearly to Kessler.
Abraham was coming off being a loss. I understand but disagree. The problem with DFTaylor is he failed to understand how anyone else can have an opinion other than himself. theres at least 5 other people in this thread that agree Ward is top 15.
When was Kessler ever a "Great" fighter? The best he's ever been was against Calzaghe and he's looked the ****'s since. A lot of people rated Kessler the best SMW in the world when Calzaghe went but a lot of people also didn't. I remember reading a few thing's with people saying Ward was gonna' beat Kessler, people were blinded by Kessler's performance against Calzaghe and either forgot, or never seen his performances after which weren't too clever. Kessler was being hyped up as the Super Six started, and wether it was Ward, Dirrel, or any of the other fighter's who got Kessler first, his hype train was coming to an end... If Dirrell had of outpointed Kessler would you be rating him so highly?
It's not bias it's common sense. Your criteria for a pound for pound fighter must be heavily based on their potential because other than that Ward doesnt stand up to many other pound for pound contenders(resume-wise at least). I wont name obvious ones like Pacquiao, Mayweather etc but if you match Ward to people that would be around about where he is you get: Nonito Donaire- Has cemented his place as the best, or one of the best, fighters in three different weight classes with wins against an undefeated Darchinyan, Moruti Mthalane and Volodymyr Sydorenko. And has wins over fighters of Allan Green's standard like Concepcion and Martinez Pongsalek Wonjongkam- Arguably has better wins than Ward by beating Naito twice, undefeated Kameda and Julio Cesar Miranda with lots of other wins against guys of Allan Green's standard and has done so with tremendous longetivity. Timothy Bradley- Has beaten two undefeated fighters this year alone in Lamont Peterson and Abregu(arguable top 10 welter at the time). Also has wins over Junior Witter, Kendall Holt and Miguel Vazquez Fernando Montiel- Three weight world champion with many wins against good to very good opposition and has one of the best wins of this year against Hozumi Hasegawa, who himself probably deserves to be rated above Ward. Miguel Cotto- Three weight world champion with an excellent resume, Shane Mosley, Zab Judah, Torres, Quintana, Urkal, Bailey, Foreman, Clottey, Malignaggi, Pinto and Corley. His only two losses are to Pacquiao(no shame there) and a very dubious one to Margarito. Juanma Lopez- Two weight world champion who has beaten Daniel Ponce de Leon, Steve Luevano, Penalosa, Concepcion and Rafael Marquez, who may have been past his best but definitely wasnt shot when he fought Lopez. That's six fighters on top of Pacquiao, Mayweather, JM Marquez, Martinez and Klitschko that should be rated above him and there are a lot of other fighters you could argue that should be ahead of him. It's not bias either, I'm a huge Ward fan and I've followed him since the start of his career, but you have to be realistic, Ward has not done enough to merit a place in the top 10 pound for pound fighters in the world
Davew430's pretty much covered it. But even if Marquez wasn't all he used to be, he was a damn sight better than Kessler had been since losing to Calzaghe. To rate Ward above Lopez is ridiculous - and if his best win is Ponce De Leon, so what - Ponce De Leon's a damn good fighter, certainly better than Green or Bika. No, the only person that seems to struggle with this concept is you. I accept you have an opinion, you just need to accept I don't agree with it. Your arguments haven't convinced me I'm wrong. You asked me to find ten fighters I'd rate ahead of Ward. I did, and now you're crying about it because you don't agree with them. And then you complain that I don't respect your right to an opinion? Hilarious.
It's a BS list toward British fighters, Froch Haye Khan should be at least in the top 20. That's why I can't wait for Khan to woop Bradey's small 5'6 American ass (if he beats Alexander) then we will see where they put him on the list.
I'm not sure what the updated one says, but when they have him at like 27 before the Maidana fight there's nothing wrong with that. But if he isnt in the top 20 after then it is questionable.
Tim Bradley isnt worthy of ninth spot FFS - ok he beat two good unbeaten fighters - but they had padded records. Ward is more deserving of a top ten place at the expense of Bradley - no doubt. So is Froch for that matter.
Khan in the top 20? OOoooh, people will debate it, but if he is in the top 20 it should be very low (close to 20). His win against Maidana is the only thing going for him this year, the Malignaggi fight was a joke, and the Kotelnik win was decent, but other than that it's hard to argue a case for top 20 on the basis we're judging. Froch, he's the best shout at a British fighter being top 20, his recent record is nothing to be ashamed of, beating good fighter's, has the best resume in the SMW division. Haye? Pah... I know some people will see my avatar and automatically think i'm a Haye hater, but if we're going on recent form/record, Haye doesn't deserve to be near the top 20. I don't even have to explain
Bradley is 9th right now right, so if he beats Alexander another unbeaten title holder where would rank him then 7th,8th? And say them Khan beat Bradley in the summer, where would they then place Khan?
I'd say Bradley is between maybe 10-15 right now, if he beats Alexander then he'll probably be 7th or 8th. If Khan were to beat him after the Alexander fight he'd definitely crack the top 10, plus he'll be aided by the fact he's probably going to beat somebody decent in between like Peterson, Katsidis etc.
Yeah if Khan can stop Peterson inside the 12 which no one has done yet, plus beat Bradley I think Khan would force his way into the top 10.
He'd be undisputed best in one of the best divisions in the sport so it would be criminal not to have him in the top 10 if this were to happen. Is the Peterson fight wrapped up now or what?
