yeh another one but i have thought about it more and perhaps i am underrating it. He stopped the most durable Middleweight ever and dominated half the fight still a great achievement.
You think Nelson is better than LaMotta? You think a young Hopkins is better than LaMotta? You think McCallum is better than LaMotta?
Yes i think Nelson is better than LaMotta No i dont think a young Hopkins is better than LaMotta Yes i think McCallum is better than LaMotta however the Nelson fight was when Nelson was moving up in weight so i will discount it. Hopkins was young so discount that. McCallum and Kalambay, that was a prime McCallum shut out, better than Robinson Lamotta 6 IMO. However i have to concede it is great and the more i think of it the more closer it gets
I think it would be a rare ATG list that would have Nelson and McCallum above LaMotta...but kay sera.
Nelson achieved alot over afew weights and McCallum was a top fighter for a decade over 2 weights. Dont get me wrong these guys are about even. I just think the manner of victory wa mnore emphatic
It definitely was emphatic - but Whitaker enjoys a slight stylistic advantage over a guy like Nelson. Robinson is at a disdavantage against a bigger swarmer. He negated this advantage by putting on a boxing performance that is absolutley unique - a backfoot performance where he is also sitting down on almost every single punch. Some of his body punchign was incredible. How he maintained balance and avoidance under such pressure and continued to deliver consistantly heavy artillary is something that still takes my breath away on the 30th, whatever, viewing. I'm not saying take credit from Whitaker because he is so incredibly brilliant, which he is, and he showed it in that fight, but i am saying that the greatest display of boxing would be one where the fighter displays brillaince in competitive rounds rather than in a fight he was walking.
I can see the argument of having Nelson above LaMotta in the all-time great ratings, perhaps even McCallum. I don't necessarily think so but a lot of people don't rate LaMotta as highly these days. But Nelson surely wasn't a better lightweight than LaMotta was at middleweight. McCallum for all of his achievements shouldn't be ranked above LaMotta at middleweight either. Robinson was also a welterweight coming up in weight. That's why it's impressive.
Mostly the stuff i've already talked about. Take Ali for a second. Ali fought on the backfoot but he did float about, like his famous boast. He could snap out punches, could he ever, but he was mostly "gliding". Robinson fought round after round purely off the backfoot, ceeding space to this pressure fighter in order to control range, and in his control of the range, in my opinion, he doesn't make a mistake. He fights the perfect fight in that sense. LaMotta, in my opinion, is the perfect embodyment of that style. Yes, he has weaknesses, so there are arguably better pressure fighters, but what i mean is, in terms of the the things that a great pressure fighter should do - closing distance, maintaining pressure, output, control of the space & cutting off the ring, taking punches to give them, chin and durability - he embodies those things more perfectly than anyone. So he finds a way to close the class gap with Robinson. That's just what a pressure fighter is supposed to do, close the class gap with pressure and guts and balls. But Sugar is never overhwelmed. He doesn't panic - he doesn't even look too worried. He just keeps on delivering the punishment, head and body, head and body. When he punches - he picks the perfect punches in this fight. Somtimes massive, wide, swinging, imperfect punches to the body, but so fast, other times, short chopping blows, other times, jab, jab, jab, and he just fights his way back into control - he takes it away from the man who is supposed to be taking it away from him but on the back foot. Then, it has one of the most brutal stoppages of a fighter ever. And this is not a fighter that is stoppable.
watched it again and it was a good fight the last 4 rounds was dominating i would like to see your scorecard for it though zas it was competitive until the 9th IMO
I think I only gave JLM 3 or 4 rds, I think I remember Robinson sweeping every rd from 7 onwards with a quite close 11th, its been a few months since I seen it tho & I never marked down my score, I just seen it so many times that I ended up remembering every rd clearly. Masterful performance by an as close to prime as there is on film Ray Robinson. :good