If Futch has the ability to pluck out and train any man in early '73 for a fight with Ali (And therefore replacing Norton on the card), who would be able to beat The Greatest in a similar competitive performance to the one that Kenny put out?
Wasn’t Futch involved with Norton for quite a bit before or around the time of the Ali bout? I don’t think it was just for a year or so - I don’t know.
Pretty sure. I'm just making it a briefer amount of time, because if you give good boxers that much time with Futch and they listen, anything could happen.
Eddie wasn’t some magic elixir. He had some brilliant game plans that worked … and some that did not. Eddie had Frazier trying to stick-and-move/in-and-out vs. Foreman in the second fight. He lasted a little longer but it didn’t give him a better result. He also had Michael Spinks throwing right-hand leads repeatedly vs. Tyson … and it lasted 91 seconds (about 73 of which were actual fighting, as Spinks took a knee for an eight-count and was counted out). So it’s not like Eddie walks in and any fighter is magically transformed into a winner. That said, he gave Montell Griffin a game plan that befuddled Roy Jones Jr for a while — seems like it was about to end in a KO loss but RJJ got DQ’d for hitting Griffin when he was down. But Montell didn’t keep Eddie for the rematch and Roy (obviously motivated by the first result, so maybe it wouldn’t have matter) beat him like a rented mule. All in all, I think Futch worked best when he had a fighter for a period of years to teach him a lot of stuff so he could pull out what tools were needed for a particular fight plan. And to improve on the guy’s weaknesses and emphasize his strengths. I’m not sure your scarily works, @Totentanz.
I didn't say Futch was some magical elixir that would improve any fighter immediately and make em able to fight equal with Ali. I also know that Futch didn't always have the same gameplans, I was trying to make a scenario to where he could instruct an already good fighter to be better in a hypothetical match with Ali by employing a similar strategy to Norton, only matched to whoever fighter he'd be working with. It's not like I said "If Futch had Bobick before the FOTC, then he could've replicated Frazier's performance." Most trainers SHOULD do better when working with men for an extended period of time to where they can fully understand how the other man works, and how they can function at their upmost best. That is not what this scenario is about.
Eddie did train Bobick, I’m pretty sure, but I assume you knew that haha. So I’ll go status quo and name Bobick as the guy Eddie trains to beat Ali in Norton’s place. I’ll assume Muhammad slips on a banana peel (that Eddie probably left on the canvas during referee instructions before the first bell) and gets counted out.
Interestingly Futch actually trained Bobick when he fought Norton. Norton's split with Futch wasn't a happy one and was caused by Futch honoring a promise to take over Joe Frazier if Durham died. Norton wasn't happy and walked. Futch had a lot to say pre fight. Boy has Kenny got a surprise coming etc. There was more but i can no longer access a link i put up ages ago. There was a fair bit of feeling there. Norton was particularly annoyed they even picked him. If Bobick and his people want to fight me, I guess they don't think much of me," Norton says. "I'm insulted." Norton's trainer, Bill Slayton, says, "We sure didn't want to fight anyone who could possibly beat us. Bobick was the safest one." In the Bobick camp, Trainer Eddie Futch, who used to be Norton's trainer, insists, "Boy, has Norton got a surprise coming."
