"The Greatest" H2H

Frazier because he did.

 

1. Lennox Lewis. Lewis has the size and ability to out box Ali over 12 or 15 rounds as well as the power to stop him. I don't think Ali has the stoping power to stop Lewis.
2. Mike Tyson I considred ranking Tyson #1 but I think Lewis edges him out. Watch Ali/Patterson 1. Patterson is able to make contact with Ali. If Patterson who was 30 and past his best could make contact with a prime Ali than Tyson could make contact with impact with Ali. Ali is made for Tyson. Tyson is not an inside boxer despite his lacl of highth. He is at his best when he has space to work with. Ali's dancing around gives him that space. Tyson by t/ko within 8 rounds.
3. Joe Louis. Louis will have some early trubble with Ali annd if he can't knock him out or even down he might not beat him. Louis may not be as fast as Ali but he is as tecnacaly perfect as you can get. He knows how to get him self in to pistion to land big shots. This fight will eather be a decision win for Ali or a late t/ko win for Louis.
4. Joe Frazier. I think this fight plays out much like the real Ali/Frazier 1 did. I think it is a pick'em fight. Fraizer's dislike of Ali is going to be a factor. I also think Frazier is going to need to knock doown or knock out Ali to get the win as well. This is going to be close and I can see a split decision in this one.
5. Evander Holyfield. I think Ali wins this match up. I think it is going to be one of those fights where the fight is closer than the scores indacate. I can see Ali winning almost every round but Holyfield will make him work for those rounds. I don't see any knockdowns or knockouts in this match up.
6. Rocky Marciano. Marciano always has a punchers chance but I Ali is going to keep his distance and out box him to a clear decision victory.

 

I think it's the opposite.

I can easily see Ali out-box Holmes/Lewis. He's basically more athletic and better than both of them. Sure, he's not as technical. But his speed, reflexes, chin, would be all than more enough. Lewis has the power to make things interesting, but I just feel Ali can out-score him. I favor Ali over Holmes and Lewis, but I give Lewis more of a chance.

I'm talking Ali at his best. Ali with speed, and unbelievable reflexes, timing, and accuracy.

Tyson, on the other hand posses a serious risk. And Marciano is a non-stop machine.

If Mercer jab gave Lennox issues...

And holmes struggled more than he should have with some of the guys in front of him.

 

Part of the reason is that he lost these fights after spending several years of his prime accumulating ring rust. The post-ban Ali wasn't on the same level as the younger version for reflexes and hand speed. Frazier would not have caught the young Ali as much as he did in FOTC.

The Ali that lost to Frazier and Norton is catchable and beatable by guys like Frazier, prime Tyson (Tyson from the Douglas fight on would have almost 0% chance), and especially Joe Louis. The young Ali is likely to be as hard to hit as he was against Liston.

IMO the pre-ban Ali would perform a bit like Roy Jones Jr did against Hopkins or Toney - clearly dominating great fighters with vastly superior speed, reflexes, and footwork, never looking close to losing. The difference is that Ali has one of the best ever chins too so he would be even harder to beat H2H than prime RJJ was.

 

The problem for guys like Tyson and Marciano is that prime Ali is not only the most elusive heavyweight ever (both footwork and head movement), he also has arguably the best ever chin and recuperative abilities. They are just not going to be able to hunt him down like they did vs more normal opposition, and even on the rare occasions they do, it's going to be hard as hell to knock him out.

So, they have to win a points decision over 12-15 rounds - but with a reach and speed disadvantage and Ali's jab pistoning into their face for most of the fight, good luck with that.

 

Marciano does not need to knock Ali out to beat him, he can just outwork him like he did vs Charles or Fraizer did in the first fight.

 

Old, slow George Chuvalo took Ali to the ropes many times in their fight and had Ali pissing blood afterwards.

Image what Joe Louis would have done to a stationary target like that.

Ali would have been contacting the American Kidney Foundation applying for his double transplant afterwards.

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I'd pick Tyson to beat Ali as well but I don't think his style specifically would cause stylistic trouble for Ali.

I'd rather pick someone who I feel would have a stylistic advantage over Ali and I think Lennox Lewis or Larry Holmes would give Ali fits.

With Ali; Frazier was a 300 pound rock that he had to carry across a large room in a short period of time.

Norton was more like calculating the sharpe ratio of a short biased Hedge Fund.

Both were challenges but in different ways.

I tend to think that Lewis falls deeply in the "Norton" category and as a result I would be more comfortable favoring him over Ali than I would Tyson, Frazier or Dempsey for that matter.

 

No way, louis too slow afoot to catch Ali. It would be a long, fustrating night for the "brown bpmber" as he frequently misses and takes many combinations before being stopped in 9.

 

That's why I think you can't out-box. For the reasons you mentioned. That foot-work speed, chin, stamina, etc. Yes, it's nearly unfeasible to knock him out. But to out-tough, to fight him in a fight under your terms is the way to go. Mauling, brawling, and pressure is that key. Out-boxing him isn't the way to go. Yes, Larry has a tad more power and a better left jab and Lennox has more power. But I see Lennox not being fast enough on foot or hand, and Larry having trouble controlling range against a man who's reflexes and foot-speed are phenomenal.

Both are hard to do, which is why Ali is The Greatest.

Like Joe Louis. Forget about "out-boxing this kid." You got brawl him. Get him on the ropes, and trap him. Louis idea was a blueprint of Frazier's FOTC fight.

I definitely prefer Tyson/Frazier/Marciano against Ali if these three had 10 fights with Ali (combined) then having the Holmes/Lewis/Wlad types.

Terrel, Bugner, and other fights showed me this. Chuvalo & Frazier fights showed me my perspective.

Louis might be the dark horse.

 

Interestingly Ali said his toughest opponent would have been Rocky Marciano. He also said that the likes of Dempsey/Marciano/Frazier were his worst match-up.

 

You wrecked it. You wrecked your own poll... Shameful.

 

I forgot to rank Larry Holmes. I would rank Holmes at 5 between Frazier and Holyfield. While Holmes may have one of the best jabs in the history along with exlent skills and power. I think Ali is going to be to fast for him. Ali by decision.

 

Frazier. He actually did it. Holmes and Lewis would be second and third and be favourites to beat Ali. Louis is 50/50. Marcinao ad abour 40-45% of a chance I think. I can´t see Holyfield winning. Ali is better than Evander in beeing Evander when the going get´s tough. And I disagree with the people thinking Tyson would beat Ali. Two reasons. Patterson had a very similar style to Tyson wad was clearly beaten. Two times. Tyson hit´s harder, is bigger and his style is more refined. But Patterson has more heart and was the better technically. I think these two fights gives us a better indication how Tyson would do against Ali than the Frazier fights. The second reason was already briefly mentioned by Sweet Pea. Mental games. Tyson had mental issued, he could be provoked and you could play with his mind if you are good at these things. Ali was a master in this. IMO Ali would destroy Tyson mentally in the build up to the fight and would have Tyson beat before setting a foot into the ring.

 

I always felt a prime Tyson would have the best chance, his speed, power, bob n weave & relentlessness would be hard for any HW in history, even peak Ali.... his stamina was very good too.

I give Holyfield close to 0 shot tbh.