The Old Axiom

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by HomicideHenry, May 19, 2009.

  1. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    In theory, the man who is HW champ can beat any man in the world. On most polls Muhammad Ali is considered the greatest of all time, so let's pose this question:

    'Who could have defeated a prime Muhammad Ali?'

    Was there any boxer, in any possible weight class, who could have pulled the upset against Muhammad Ali? Wrap your minds around this thought and really wonder about it. Is there any Cruiserweight, any Light Heavyweight, etc who could have defeated him?

    And dont turn this into a joke that Manny Pacquia could have defeated him either, unless you can actually give a solid argument, cus I am tired of those damn idiotic threads :lol:
     
  2. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Mike Tyson, Joe Louis, Lenox Lewis
     
  3. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Frazier. I feel the FOTC Frazier would have beaten any Ali, especially considering Ali didn't quite have the guts he had later in his career (Wanting to quit against Liston compared to the unfathomable courage he would later show) which wouldn't help him any in a 15 war struggle against the ultimate will tester in Frazier.
     
  4. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We will surely be in the minority, but I completely agree!
     
  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I would pick Joe Frazier!

    I would give a prime version of: Louis, Holmes, Marciano a fairly good chance.

    I would give a prime version of: Norton, Liston, Lewis an outside shot

    I would give a prime version of: Tyson & Dempsey a punchers chance
     
  6. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I would give a prime cruiserweight/new to the heavyweight division Holyfield a shot.
     
  7. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    lennox lewis has a chance and maybe joe louis.thats all
     
  8. JediPimp007

    JediPimp007 Long suffering reader Full Member

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    Frazier maybe, Tyson maybe and I'd give Lewis an outside chance also.

    Other person I'd give a chance, to which people may laugh at me for... Roy Jones Junior based on his 'prime' hand and foot speed. I dont doubt for a second that one flush punch maybe all it takes for Ali to level him, but then I also think he's capable of doing a Mayweather and pot shotting his way to a points win
     
  9. HomicideHenry

    HomicideHenry Many Talents, No Successes Full Member

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    I remember Dempsey once saying [before the 1971 FOTC]: "I could have beaten Ali, Frazier has my style, and he will beat Ali too!"

    I think the ATG swarmers, and ATG counter punchers would have defeated Ali, or at least had the better shot of doing it, than anyone else. Futch was a genius, he created the perfect strategy for swarming Frazier to defeat Ali, and he honed a perfected counter punching style for Norton to beat Ali.

    For the more modern day era, the only HW I can see doing it would be Holyfield.
     
  10. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali born into another fighters time: Sullivan 2-3 odds; Corbett 2-3; Jeffries even; Johnson even; Dempsey 2-3; Tunney 1-2; Louis 2-3; Walcott 1-2; Marciano 2-3; Frazier 2-3; Holmes 3-4; Tyson 1-2; Holyfield 1-2; Bowe 2-5; Lewis 1-2.

    Ali time machined into another fighters time: Jeffries 1-2; Johnson 1-2; Dempsey 1-3; Tunney 1-3; Louis 1-2; Walcott 1-2; Marciano 3-5; Frazier 2-3; Holmes 3-4; Tyson 3-5; Holyfield 3-5; Bowe 1-2; Lewis 3-5

    Other fighters Time Machined into Ali's time: Jeffries 1-4; Johnson 1-3; Tyson 1-2; Holyfield 1-2; Bowe 2-5; Lewis 1-2; Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Walcott, Marciano, Frazier, Holmes are the same as for Ali time machined into another fighters time.
     
  11. enquirer

    enquirer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just to clarify,no non heavyweight is EVER beating Ali. (incuding marciano,dempsey et al.) Ali beats any heavy over a three fight series....
    The thought of roy jones being mentioned in this thread is DESPICABLE.....
     
  12. JediPimp007

    JediPimp007 Long suffering reader Full Member

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    sorry, bit new to the classic forum having had enough of the idiots in the general one. I'm a huge RJJ fan, I just feel he'd have a chance based on his outrageous speed and reflexes... if that makes me crazy sobeit! :nut:lol:

    :good
     
  13. The Kurgan

    The Kurgan Boxing Junkie banned

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    Excellent picks.
     
  14. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The 70's Ali lost to Frazier, & Norton and had close calls with Young & Shavers.

    The 60's Clay / Ali best opponent was a stale Liston, maybe one that took a dive Liston, and Floyd Patterson who at least tried. All the other opponents just weren't in Ali's league, whether because of talent or age.

    So, anybody who is better than the above has a shot.
     
  15. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Anybody, including Ali, could be beaten on a given night.

    That's one reason I accord Marciano's zero such high esteem.

    Rahman beat a prime Lewis.
    Schmeling beat a prime Louis.
    Douglas beat a prime Tyson.


    That said, It's probaly self-evident that a peak Lewis would be favoured over a peak Rahman. The 1-1 record of their encounters, doesn't tell the whole story.

    Let's say they fought 10 times, 6 weeks apart, IMO, Lewis would probably win 8 or 9 of the fights. (We know he didn't win 100 %).

    So I would say, all things being equal, with both men at prime, and both well prepared, Lewis would probably beat Rahman.



    And, to answer the thread question, using the same principles, Ali would probably beat anyone who ever boxed.