I was rewatching the Maia-Mcdonald fight and it reminded me of this...the triangle choke cannot be applied on everyone...I know a guy in my class years ago..short stocky guy about 5`6 but broad shoulders, weird ****in body...I tried to triangle him ..at this point we were just giving up submissions...he wasnt defending it at all...I couldnt so my teacher tried it and he couldnt, so practically the whole class tried it and no one can do it...well this issue just died down throughout the years..rewatching the Maia-Mcdonald fight reinforced this belief... anyone else had this experience
Well I feel like an idiot arm chairing Damian Maia, probably a top 5 bjj guy in the world (or was McDonald trying it? Either way, both know more than 90% of mma fighters out there) but the key is to get out to the side, not from the front; the side away from where the arm is trapped. Almost like you are going for an armbar or omoplata; hook the leg if you have to, even try turning him over into a mounted triangle. Hughes has been in deep triangles, Coleman has, they are both broad shouldered guys, its just really damn hard sometimes. There are also guys who have necks that seem impossible to choke: Sherk and Lesnar, but given enough tries, pretty much any sub is possible.
True.. but we did try it on an angle..this kid had basically no neck..just a weird ****in body..arm triangle choke though will do the trick even with a gorilla. as far as hooking the leg..havent seen much of that lately
There is one guy at my gym who is somewhat like that but its certainly not impossible to secure a triangle on him. Ill admit Triangle is one of my weaker moves ive never actually tapped anyone with one although ive had it locked in dozens of times. I suppose theres a few things I could learn on it and drill the move more. I did some kneebars tonight I ****ing like them and I see why they are called kneebars my knee hurt like hell.
This is true to a certain extent. I don't remember the specifics of the Maia-McDonald fight so I'm not sure how this question applies in that context. It is true that some guys with broad shoulders and thick necks can be hard or even next to impossible to triangle - especially in training situations. In training - generally everyone is relaxed and at ease thus making one's resistance to such a technique greater. When I was training regularly in jiujitsu, there were certain guys that were always difficult to triangle choke. Conversely - there are guys with amazing flexibility and/or long legs that can triangle choke almost anyone. The key to applying the traingle choke after locking one's legs is to pass the trapped arm across the uke's neck and pull the head down. As Beebs stated above - angling out to the side makes this application easier. Even then - there are guys that can resist it - especailly in relaxed training sessions - so that is when transitioning to the armbar combo comes into play. In my mind - the top level guys are always hooking subs with the traingle/armbar combo. That's the mark of the superior jiujitsuan.
theres just people like that, we were doing arm triangles at practice one day and i couldnt get my brother to tap all the instructors tried and were getting pissed off cause tehy couldnt either, sometimes it just comes down to the way your body is put together
Also last night there was a 300lb powerlifter with no neck whatsoever, the key was getting his arm against his artery and pulling it across and his head down into it; these guys usually have short arms and big biceps, so you don't have to move it lateraly much, just down slightly, under the chin is ideal but bicep to artery works; doesn't even have to be across his body, like Lister did to Sakara; that takes care of that half of it The other half has two ways for this sort of guy; you can sort of like leg scissor where you are straightening your crossed feet out, hence bringing your knees together and squeezing your leg on his other artery, this makes it harder to control though because now your leg away from the trapped arm isn't holding him down, so you have to really have to be in control of his arm/head and posture; you could also just focus on getting to the side away from the trapped arm, and really pulling the arm into the head and pushing the head into the arm.
Obviously that is one counter, but it can be prevented by hooking the leg on the other side of the trapped arm, or even by even being far enough to the side that your leverage from that position can handle most guys (he is ****ing strong though) Dean Lister explaining the sitting out to the side [yt]Y2v7GFAI_2k[/yt] Here is a picture and post explaining what I mean by "hook the leg" in a much better way than I can explain, from "Iron Man" on http://www.mmaforum.com/grappling-technique/35481-good-triangle-vs-bad-triangle.html This content is protected One of the first things I learned about the triangle choke is that the secret has nothing to do with pulling the head down and getting the arm across tight, there's something that, once you have the position relatively close, will finish that for you. Hook the leg. It doesn't need to be deep. In a gi competition, just grabbing one of the legs of the pants and pulling yourself sideways will work, but hooking the leg changes the entire basis of the triangle. I say this to the kids I teach all of the time: it's not just about locking up the head and squeezing really hard, nothing in jiu-jitsu works like that. Here's what I mean: If you pull yourself sideways by hooking the leg you are preventing the slam (you won't get rampaged), but you are also creating the perfect angle to cut right into the neck with your leg that is supposed to be cutting off blood. This also tightens your grip on your opponents arm and, if their arm is trapped in your hip the way that it should be, this will finish the technique. It's a little detail, but I see guys get so frustrated with the triangle and waste so much energy dealing with it and squeezing so hard with their legs, and all that they have to do is hook that leg and pull their body parallel to their opponent's and they've got the submission in a few seconds. Everyone always worries, in the triangle, about their opponent stepping over their head when they turn sideways, so they try and stay like this: They think that they're safe because they're opponent can't step over their head and pry the triangle off. I've had guys try and do that to me, and there are two easy solutions: Keep holding the leg. They can't step over you if the leg is hooked in your armpit. That's one of the best motivators to establish control of the leg. or Go for a toehold. It's a bit crazy, but I've landed it in sparring a few times and it's fun. If you have a gym where they let you do that, it's a cool trick and their only solution for escaping the toe hold will be to pull that leg away, undoing that step over and allowing you to go back and work on the triangle that you kept on. I tend to stick to the leg-hook, because simplicity is key for me in competition, but I just wanted to emphasize the point: Make that angle by using that leg hook. You solve alot of problems.
Using the leg hook properly to counter the slam is a good way to knock a guy back down and transition straight into the armbar combo.
Maybe not a new forum for grappling just maybe a nice thread for the guys including myself who do it so we discuss this stuff more often.
Yea, It's natural for me because my first teacher was De La Riva's top student, so the De La Riva guard was drilled into me from day one, and this is quite similar.
Damn thats impressive its always good to have a coach who comes from a stud like that do you still work with him ?
No, it was Marcello Monterio, he worked with the nogs quite a bit too. Look him up if you are in the Indianapolis area http://www.bjjcoach.com/ ****, I'd never seen this, but here he is using the exact thing I was trying to explain in an MMA fight. [yt]ONar8MwHLYw[/yt] I don't live in Indy anymore and am shopping 3 schools at the moment. 1's a legit Blackbelt whos very much of the Helio/Torrence Academy style, the other 2 are Judo/sub grappling/mma schools. Basically it will come down to convience, all 3 would work.