This is really to address the obsession that Tyson ducked both Foreman and Lewis. Everyone seems intent on claiming that Foreman called out Tyson and Tyson never fought Foreman so Tyson was scared. Obviously that was bull****. Lets get things straight everyone wanted to fight Mike but in this instance; George wanted to fight Mike Tyson because: 1. Mike Tyson is a Cash Cow- meaning there was a huge payday for him. 2. Mike Tyson was the Undisputed Champion at the time he was calling him out. Scheduling conflicts precluded Tyson from fighting Foreman pre-prison. Losing to Douglas meant that a fight with Foreman was simply going to be on the back burner. The thing is King lost control of the titles when Douglas signed with Steve Wynn. Then Douglas loses to Holyfield and of course the titles are now even further away from King. King wanted control of the titles so he tried to threaten Evander and his promoter Dan Duva into fighting Tyson 6 months after winning the belt from Douglas or risk having his titles stripped. Meaning a Foreman fight was not priority. Meanwhile Foreman at that point had redirected his attention to Evander Holyfield and not Mike Tyson. King was unsuccessful in forcing a fight with between Evander and Tyson on his terms. During that time period had a falling out with Seth Abraham VP of Sports at HBO where supposedly Evander was given preferential treatment to Mike Tyson. Or perhaps where HBO wouldn't bend to every demand that Don King made. Threats were made, Abraham called King's bluff and off to Showtime he went with Tyson. So he went over and took Ruddock as an opponent because of Razor's ranking, power and relevance to the division and willingness to play ball (thats important). It was a fight that was supposed to happen in 1989 but was delayed as Tyson and his crew pretty much dicked around. It was a PPV success in which King put up his own money at risk and a bit from Showtime and was able to rake in a pretty nice profit. Tyson-Ruddock I reached parity with Holyfield-Foreman despite being a non title fight and despite being under-promoted in comparison. With Dan Duva controlling the belt, King had little leverage in terms of getting options on Holyfield. Remember After Tyson vs. Ruddock II King exclaimed in the post fight interview "We don't want Holyfield...." Not because they didn't want the title rather it was King being defiant showing that he can make money without holding the belts. Remember Tyson Ruddock and Holyfield Foreman were held pretty close together. King finally was able to work out his situation with Dan Duva and HBO to secure a fight with Evander Holyfield in November 1992. So now when exactly was Tyson supposed to fight Foreman pre-prison? There was simply no time. PPV fights typically take 5 months to promote. There was absolutely no way King would waste 5 months promoting a non-title fight between Tyson and Foreman without options on Foreman. Not gonna happen. Had Tyson fought and beat Evander Holyfield he would have likely fought George Foreman. By the way here are some references: http://books.google.com/books?id=Duk...page&q&f=false ^ go to page 45 And after prison the fight was also on the table. http://books.google.com/books?id=fTk...page&q&f=false Notice how George conveys his reluctance to dealing with King? It takes two the make the fight. As for the Lewis situation Unforgiven said it best: "I've heard a lot of people claim Lewis was ducked by Tyson in 1996. Citing the $4 million step-aside fee Lewis was paid to allow Tyson to go ahead with a planned match with Seldon instead of defending his WBC title against Lewis. What is less discussed is that Lewis turned down $13.5 million guarantee offer to fight Tyson before accepting the $4 million. And this was before Lewis faced Ray Mercer. The Mercer fight did not improve Lewis's value or perceived chances against Tyson at that time one iota. If anything his stock fell with that fight. Lewis and his true-believers shout a lot about how he was ducked by everyone for years, but how true is it ? Why was Lewis turning down massive purse offers if he was so desperate to prove himself the best ? I'm not blaming Lewis. Or Tyson. I know they had managers, promoters and the rival TV companies dictating a lot to them. But there's definitely some revisionist history going on that makes Lewis the white knight of the heavyweights, an outsider, who everyone refused to fight for years. When really he was as much a pampered superstar fighter as the others - massively built up by HBO and favoured by the WBC, for examples - and part of the problem of avoiding and seeking out easy paydays and pricing himself out with demands for bigger purses." As you can see with the tone of the article written without the benefit of hindsight makes no insinuation of Tyson ducking Lewis, or being afraid of Lewis in anyway shape or form. It simply shows that it was a business decision made on both parties and it would allow for Lewis to be built up for an eventual superfight with Tyson (who incidentally the article assumed would beat both Seldon and Holyfield). http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...54C0A960958260 Boxing is full of politics and negotiating, networks, managers, promoters, etc. So much is involved in making a fight that fighters seldom have complete control of the situation. How many times have you heard a fighter in a post fight interview defer to their promoter when asked "who do you want next?" Countless times! Its simply a matter of how the game works.
I read a recent Foreman interview where he basically admitted that he didn't think he could have beaten Tyson back when a Foreman/Tyson fight was being talked about. Foreman said that he didn't think he (Foreman) had much to trouble Tyson with, that Tyson's foot work and speed would have been hard to deal with. Whether Foreman's being truthful or not is debatable, but he did state these things. I'm of the opinion that Foreman probably knew he'd get his butt kicked in a fight with Tyson, but Foreman was basically broke when he launched his comeback, so he probably figured it'd be worth getting bruised and beaten by Tyson in exchange for several million dollars! Big $$$$$ is, of course, what Foreman's comeback was really all about.
I never thought that. I thought Foreman knew he had the style to beat Tyson and the size. Tyson would do better than most guys in the division than Foreman. He would have beaten Morrison easily, but Foreman's style of pushing him off and punching would have worked against Mike.
Both Tyson and Foreman were keen on fighting each other but Foreman is the one who backed out of the deal (not that I blame him). I asked Aaron Snowell who was training Tyson at the time why it didnt happen, and he told me that the fight wasnt made because Foreman refused to give Don King options on his future fights. King went as far as putting Foreman on the Tillman undercard, but Foreman balked once a multifight deal was presented to him.
Thanks.... I was sort of waiting for the some of the Tyson detractors to come in a try to discredit this thread with conjecture that they heard from a hack writer who claimed it never happened because Tyson was afraid. It almost makes me laugh to think that some people believe the fight wasn't made because Mike was scared.
Foreman didn't like Don King at all....I suppose there would never have been a situation either of them would have wavered unless Foreman wanted a piece of Tyson's titles.
The logical time for Foreman to fight Tyson would have been after the Foreman-Holyfield fight, however Tyson was in prison. During this period in the early 90's most people considered Foreman a joke, however, astute boxing observers took notice when Foreman demolished top 10 contender Adilson Rodrigues and Tyson must have realized he was no joke as Tyson was on the same card and observed Foreman-Rodrigues. Too bad for the prison time because a lot of ATG rankings could have been resolved if Tyson faced Lewis and Foreman in his prime during the early 90's.
Good thread totally agree with everything Also post above, your right, Tysons most important fights were just around the corner before he went into prison unfortunately. If he hadnt gone to prison 1992-1995 he would have fought Holyfield, Foreman, Bowe, Moorer and Morrison and Lewis too, maybe rematched Douglas. The most important fights for Tysons legacy would have been between 1992-1995
i dont think there was any ducking by the fighters themselves,a fighter is a fighter,these decisions who fights who and when are made up of a group of money hungry promoters who along with the camps and advisers try and work out deals that can make the most amount of money for the promoters,:think
Tyson was v.Scared And DUCKED Lennox by Only offering him $13.5mill, only $5.5mill more then teh $8mill offered to Holyfeild. Lennox should of being offered no-less then $20mill And IMO he was worth $25million - teh same as Tyson got VS Vander. When Lennox said "**** OFF!" to teh shitty stingy $13.5mill, tyson should of offered $20mill Or More - But he pussied out And offered $4mill step aside monies while he fight Holyfeild 1st. if Old Vander DESTROYED PRIME Tyson in 1996 - Prime Lennox would DESTROY him worse. :deal Foreman Hoooooook! :hat
I've read Frank Maloney's book...... when I get back from the office I'll post that section of the story. From memory, it revolves around Lewis petitioning to be mandatory to Frank Bruno. When Tyson came out of jail and beat McNeeley & Mathis he was made mandatory and the Lewis camp objected to the WBC. The WBC board unamimously agreed to sanction Bruno vs Tyson for the title, which Tyson won - on the stipulation that Tyson face Lewis next. King proposed $1m immediately to Lewis, $4m when Tyson fought Holyfield (originally slated for mid 1996) and $10m to fight the winner..... Lewis rejected it and won an injunction against King and the WBC..... which lead to Tyson taking Seldon and Holyfield a tune up with a view to getting it on at the back end of 1996.... and Lewis was awarded $4m in damages due to loss of earnings as a result of the delay. It's worth noting that Tyson losing to Holyfield was the best thing that could ever happen to Lewis financially, because King was never going to let Lewis fight Tyson without a form of control over his career..... and with no title at the time would have had the **** end of the stick and a multi fight deal with King. As it was, he was able to get the WBC, clear out everyone bar Holyfield and enter that time with plenty of leverage. The fact that Tyson was still hanging around in the division years later is a moot point.... if Lewis hadn't lost to Rahman the fight would never have happened.