H2h is the most important criteria and can only be assessed by actually watching fights. Jones Jr was as good as he looked in his peak years. Evander Holyfield is a top 5 HW. Certain elite fighters from the early 20th century would still be classed as elite today.
- 60's-90's was the golden PED era. All of the Fab Four were on it. Name the elite fighter, my response: they were on it. Testing was so poor then (it sucks even now). - Vasyl Lomachenko beats 130lb prime Mayweather. - Boxing is my guilty pleasure. I don't actually support it. I think it's ultimate stupidity but I love it. - Jack Johnson and the guys from his era royally suck by modern standards. - Floyd Mayweather, Erislandy Lara and the like show no mastery in boxing because they are not doing these 'impressive' moves whilst boxing with the philosophy 'outpoint by FIGHTING'. Rather they are trying to 'outpoint by not fighting'. - Dempsey is an overrated, white supremacist.
Almost all heavyweights historically are, by definition, lesser fighters than their smaller brethren. There is no intelligent argument to the contrary. Jack Dempsey benefitted from the era in which he fought and which is largely responsible for his historical standing. His was a more.......how do I put this without being too insulting......."wide eyed" era, where people simply craved heros and icons who represented all the swellness that was the Roaring Twenties. Babe Ruth and Jack Dempsey were the perfect brawny foils for the scribes back then, the swashbuckling devil-may-care type that perfectly fit their times, forever and indelibly linked with times of greatness and excess. It unfortunately colors the careers of both, though Ruth was indeed the best baseball player ever. Duran-Leonard 1 was not a great fight. It was a grapplefest. Can't sit through the thing. Pryor-Arguello 1 was too one-sided to be a truly great fight. Pryor was way ahead and outlanding Arguello three and four to one and his punches carried more steam. A game effort, but Arguello never had a chance.
That Cruiser weight should be reclassified as Heavyweight. The name dosnt work. The guys in it are real 220lb guys anyway. Make it official. Give them prestige. The public never understood the word Cruiserweight anyway. Amateurs have it right. Superheavyweight is here to stay. Make that official too. 230lb and up.
Thats quite interesting. Loma is better boxer than anyone Floyd had faced at 130, but I wouldn't go as far today. What do you think about that possible fight in reality? What advantages do Floyd and Loma have going into that fight?
A prime Leonard (given time to transform into a MW) would be beat a prime Hagler. Boxing has evolved and still evolves.
Lomachenko and his father take a very different approach to pointscoring. They tailor it directly to winning. The reason why Lomachenko had a tough time with Salido was because he lacked understanding of the correct pacing strategy over 12 rounds - and without this, it is difficult to implement a great pointscoring gameplan. Now Lomachenko has solved this, Lomachenko is free to enact his gameplan. The pros favour him because he has more rounds to figure his opponent out rather than just one round (he spent one round in the amateurs figuring his opponent out). Lomachenko's movement and feints from a distance are key to understanding the way his opponent reacts, so it's a very risk free way. What I'm saying is not a whole load of fluff, the proof is in the pudding as he has a 403-1 amateur record. The only style that troubles Lomachenko is a much, much bigger elite pressure fighter who defends well against body shots. Lomachenko has handled so many defensive fighters in the amateurs. Styles make fights. When people thought Pac might trouble him, they'd usually say things like his 'angles', his 'foot speed', but Lomachenko has this down to perfection. His footwork is the best in boxing. Floyd is ridiculed for turning his professional bouts into amateur-style pointscoring contests. The very competitive advantage Floyd has is completely lost against the master of this, Lomachenko.
I think the guys on Classic do know what they're talking about. The General forum is just gutter and I just go there to troll; there's only a small number of decent posters over at General.