Walker beats Tiger

McVey is of the mind that Tiger losing a few fights here and there and getting outboxed by the likes of Griffith(completely different style to Walker) means he'd get outworked and outpunched by Walker. I disagree.

 

It's a very good match-up. "The Toy Bulldog" would be a tough pill to swallow for just about any Middleweight, when one consider's his sucess rate (109 victories, twenty two losses).

But I would take Dick Tiger head-to-head, I just think Tiger had superior skill, superior hand speed (somewhat underated). The Tiger who took out Fulmer was a real force to be reckoned with, or the one who knocked out Benny Paret before the Griffith tragedy.

 

I'd really like to see your breakdown of this fight McVey...it's a helluva fight. I feel that Tiger would edge it myself, based on physical strength at the weight, and Tiger's punches were shorter than Walker's wider swings...also I feel Tiger had a more fundamentally sound defense.(chin tucked, hands up and elbows in)
But Walker was absolutely fearless and tenacious...the fight against Schmeling is an amazing testament to his toughness and grit. As I said, I'd give the edge to Tiger, but Walker should not be considered an underdog at all...this is an even fight all teh way...It's a brutal contest.
Please break it down McVey, why do you feel Walker defeats Tiger?
Addendum: Nevermind, I see you've covered it on another post.

 

I'd like a breakdown as well. Right now it seems he's basing it on the James Toney theory. If Toney was able to outbox Holyfield, Peter, Ruiz, etc at HW and guys like Jirov at CW, no way should he have had trouble and arguably lost to McCallum at MW. I base it on what they accomplished and showed at one weight class if that's where the fight takes plac, not at others later on or earlier.

 

BIG DEE HERE= Walker would take Dick Tiger apart as he would find a middleweight who was stronger than himself, took a better punch and hit
a whole lot harder. Walker beat Heavyweights that would have destroyed Tiger. I can`t see Dick Tiger fighting and beating a 6' 1" 230lb heavyweight in
Bearcat Wright who Mickey Walker kicked the hell out of on top of Paolino
Uzcudun, Meyer (KO) Christner, Johnny Risko, Bob Godwin, Jack Sharkey( 15 rd draw) and Max Schmeling. Tiger is all wrong for Mickey Walkers as Tiger was Walkers favorite kind of meat. Walker learned from the Greb fight in 1925 what it would take to go after the larger men and he became one of the strongest men ever to hold the middleweight title. MICKEYS PROBLEM WAS SLICK FIGHTERS LIKE TIGER FLOWERS, MAXIE ROSENBLOOM AND TOMMY LOUGHRAN. NOT GUYS LIKE DICK TIGER. I WATCHED EMILE GRIFFITH TAKE HIM TWICE WITH SMOOTH BOXING AND THE FACT THAT GRIFFITH WAS A
VERY STRONG MIDDLEWEIGHT LIKE TIGER. TIGER AND GRIFFITH WERE VERY CLOSE TO BEING THE STRONGEST TWO MIDDLEWIGHTS OF THE LAST 40 YRS.
MICKEY WALKER WINS A WAR OVER 15RDS AND MAYBE BY STOPPAGE ON CUTS.

 

Pea, That's how I do it as well...it's primarily how those fighters performed at the considered weight class...but I do take into some account their overall record and accomplishments, mainly the overall competition fought.

 

There are quite a few flaws here.

Walker was not stronger than Tiger. Tiger caused fighters like Jose Torres, Gene Fullmer and Henry Hank to fight off the backfoot and beat guys like Hurricane Carter up in close range.

As far as hitting harder, possibly, but he wasn't as strong or able to brawl and out-muscle in close quarters as Tiger was.

Goes hand in hand with what I said to McVey, James Toney beat HW's that would've destroyed Mike McCallum, and the schmoes like Dave Tiberi, so how did Toney manage to beat them?

See above.

He became one of the most amazing pound for pound fighters when he started bulking up for higher weights, but he was not a MW as such, when he fought at higher weights. Greb, while more known for being a speedy, volume puncher(though also strong and cunning) was said to have outmuscled Walker handily in the clinches.

Tiger Flowers was slick? From what I understand he was an excellent body puncher and boxer in close range.

That's a very off statement as well. Griffith was not an exceptionally strong MW, and he wasn't big for the weight either. Tiger was much stronger and fit the weight much better. Look at how the two of them dealt with Carter, even though I think Griffith was capable of winning that fight in a rematch possibly. Griffith was a natural WW for God's sake.

What makes you think a cuts stoppage is possible?

 

I do when judging a fighter in a P4P sense yes, but when talking head to head matchups or just one weight status I stick to what I originally said.

 

Not a single one of the bouts you mentioned had him fighting under 160 pounds, plenty of them had him in the high 170's as a matter of fact.

That's what the film tells me, though based on power of punches I can't deny your points, which is something I conceded earlier. In terms of raw strength though, the guy had the biggest roughest MW's and LHW's going backwards against him because he would simply out-muscle and out-man them in the middle of the ring, if they were big punchers, as Carter was.

Walker became a more versatile boxer at higher weights, not at MW. Greb was said to have outboxed and befuddled him on the outside, though known more as an inside fighter/swarmer himself. Not the boxer he was as a swarmer, and would be at Tiger's hand all night.

 

BIG DEE HERE= Walker had 60 KOs not 56 and he was Welterweight champion at the time he fought Harry Greb. Walker walked into the ring in the Polo Grounds on july 2 1925 weighing 153 at the weigh-in and didn`t weigh much more by fight time but Greb on the other hand was the naturally larger man
weighed-in at 158 and around 163 or 164 by fight time. You know about as much about Greb as you do Tiger Flowers who was a great boxer from the outside and who was as tough in the clinches as they come. Greb was a
great boxer on the outside as how the hell do you think he beat all the Heavyweights he fought. He sure as hell didn`t walk right into them blindly
and get the **** beat the hell out him. He was smart and fast with a great left jab. Greb slipped punches as he came in and jabbed the guys puss off.
and then unloaded everything in his arsenal. Walker beat great Lt Heavyweights as Tiger fought just a couple Lt Heavyweights worth anything
Jose Torres and Bob Foster, one he beat and the other one Foster damn near
killed him. While Mickey walker fought and beat Mike McTigue, Paul Berlenbach
Leo Lomski, all while weighing no more than 164 lbs. he also fought Tommy Loughran. Walkers record at Lt.Heavyweight is far better than Tigers.