I've been arguing criteria the whole time. A guy has to have the submission literally locked in before he is given the attempt. A guy on top can pass and improve position, but the guy on the bottom gets no credit for, "going for" a submission to improve position unless he gets a full reversal. In a game where getting a full reversal from the bottom is a **** load harder than improving guard positions, or is more akin to skipping to full mount as far as difficulty and skill is absolutely outrageous. You buy into the ideology of the scoring and do not think for yourself. What bothers me is you possibly understand what is going on in a fight and ignore how dangerous Pettis' guard really was vs. Guida's mount. Guida's mount and offense was completely neutralized and Pettis was in viertually no danger because of how well he controlled the wrists and threatened with, "going for a leg triangle." If anything Pettis controlled Guida on the ground by, "going for a leg triangle" even IF I were to buy into the ideology and scoring in place. At the end of the day, they neutralized one another and neither guy inflicted any serious damage to the other. There are advantages to being on top, but if you cant capitalize then why care? There are disadvantages from being on the bottom, but if you are game from your back and can control the fight from there, then that should reflect on the scoring.
How did Pettis end up on the ground? Did he decide to take a nice nap? No he was taken the **** down. You're right the grappling was relatively even but the reason we had those grappling exchanges was because Pettis could not keep Guida off him with his striking, nor could he stop those takedowns as they came in. A stalemate on the ground is not good enough for somebody to win off their back - the person on top has already scored points with the takedowns. To win the person on their back needs to establish a clear advantage over their opponent, more than cancelling out the points gained from the initial takedown(s). Pettis simply didn't do that - end of story.
I never said that Pettis wrist control wasnt effective, and he gets full marks from me for using it so effectively. My point with regards to that was that even with his wrists neutralised he was showing aggression by using to shoulder to strike. And I know they arent exactly ko strikes Im not an idiot.B ut this point was raised to conter the point that Clay was simply content to maintain control and not advance his position. I thought he was attempting to, but as you rightly said, Pettis guard was top notch and he couldnt do so. I think you've taken the wrist control comments completely out of the context in which it was first raised
Spot on. Pettis threatened Guida on his back more than Guida threatened him on top, and it's too bad that the rules/scoring don't reflect that.
The fight is scored on what is actually achieved during the course of a match, not what was attempted and failed.
Penn should've won the 3rd round against Finch. After all, he WANTED to get up and was TRYING to get up. Stupid judges should've knew that and gave him points.
LAS VEGAS – On Thursday, Clay Guida was asked after his workout if the lightweights that merged over from the WEC – and most importantly, his opponent Anthony Pettis – were worthy of the UFC. "He's got four or five wins over some pretty worthy opponents," Guida said after a workout at The Palms in Las Vegas. "Are they UFC-worthy? We'll find out in the next couple months. Is he UFC-worthy? We'll find out in the next couple days. He didn't fight any slouches, (but) we're going to see what he's made of." Pettis didn't do anything to make anyone think he doesn't belong in the UFC on Saturday night, despite a 30-27 unanimous decision loss to Guida at "The Ultimate Fighter" Season 13 Finale. But he said after the fight he now knows he has some work to do. "I feel I had some holes in my game, and Clay Guida and (coach) Greg Jackson did of a good job of having a good game plan," Pettis said after saying he had no regrets for taking the fight instead of waiting out a lightweight title shot that had been promised him in December. That shot was put on hold after a draw between champion Frankie Edgar and Gray Maynard, who now are recovering from training injuries before a rematch later this year. Guida was able to control the fight using an offense that consisted primarily of takedowns and ground control. He took Pettis down five times in the fight and passed his guard four times – three times in the third round. And This content is protected , he also outstruck Pettis. Pettis said it was that control by Guida, which kept him on top much of the fight, that earned him the win. Pettis worked repeatedly for triangles and armbars from guard, but Guida was able to stay busy enough to keep out of imminent danger. "I think control-wise, he was on top and he did a good job staying on top," Pettis said. "I couldn't get my submissions off – I attempted a lot, I hit him a lot, but I understand how the game works. He controlled things, and he won. I knew I had to get off my back to deal with Clay. But I'll work on it and come back stronger." Guida said Pettis' game from guard gave him problems, as did several highlight-reel kicks that just missed, bringing back memories of his kick off the cage against Ben Henderson when he won the last WEC lightweight title in December. But if Guida had any doubts on Thursday whether Pettis was ready for the UFC, they were answered Saturday. Guida seems to think so. "He must have thrown 10 or 12 triangles and armbars," Guida said. "And he hit me lights-out a couple times. Punched me, elbowed me – tough as nails. He's got a real tricky guard, and he's a real talented kid." http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/330450/Pettis-I-had-to-get-off-my-back-and-didnt/
man that **** was no "fight", it was a division wrestling match. at least pettis actually tried to inflict some kind of pain and attempt to finish, more then i can say for guida.
be realistic now stoo if you achieved a submission the fight would be over. going for a submission is keeping busy.
Stoo is about the only one with the right outlook here. Second rate attempts at subs and some think that overcomes getting taken down, passed and controlled?atsch I would give credit to Pettis if Guida was just escaping some lethal sub attempt by the skin of his teeth but that was not the case.