Watershed Heavyweights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Just curious of people's opinions

    Is there any you think wouldn't likely lose to any previous heavyweights? Let's say unlikely to lose once out of a trilogy if you insist, but go with what definition you'd like. If so who?

    Apply it to other divisions too if you like
     
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  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    I have no idea what this means.
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Wait, I think I get it.

    For example, I have Louis losing to a few guys afterwards, buy no-one before? Ali only loses to Frazier imo.
     
  4. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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    nope, unless the ruleset is bias to their era, talent is randomly born and superiority has to be taken on a case by case basis

    i think the best example i could come up with is dempsey, not only do i think he doesnt lose to any heavyweights before him (not because of some modern=superior agenda, but because I think he was the superior clay with the superior sculpting), but he increased boxing's popularity by a decent margin, allowing for more athletic and toughman talent to find their way to the ring

    In that sense i would also call Lewis or Wlad anti watershed heavyweights, making boxing much less popular and more difficult to get into with the absurd notions of needing to train since childhood and ridiculous amateur careers had by some, causing a lackluster crop. But again, talent is randomly born, and even if boxing is not at its height of popularity and sought after as it used to be, a man could be born whom is better than the rest
     
  5. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Can't see a prime Joe Louis losing to anyone before his era except possibly Dempsey if he blitzes him early without getting himself knocked out. There's a reason Louis was considered the Dawn of the modern era and modern techniques.
     
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  6. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jeffries
    Johnson
    Louis
    Ali
     
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  7. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jack Johnson is the first name that comes to mind.
     
  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Ali
    Liston
    Louis
    Dempsey
     
  10. Gudetama

    Gudetama Active Member Full Member

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    Jeffries
    Johnson
    Louis
    Liston
    Ali
    That is all. I think they beat all who came before them.
     
  11. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    For you Bits
    Greek:
    Onomatos
    Euthymos
    Melankomas (May as well be mythical, if his stories are true the list ends here)

    English BKB
    Broughton
    Slack
    Mendoza
    Belcher
    Jem Mace

    Gloved
    John L Sullivan
    Jack Johnson
    Jack Dempsey
    Gene Tunney
    Joe Louis
    Ali (List should end here. Can think of anyone I'd favor with confidence. Tyson, Holmes,Lennox, Wlad and Fury could make a case)
     
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  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Genuine examples are probably few and far between.

    For example I don't think that Sullivan would lose to any gloved fighter before him, but can you say that Jeffries wouldn't lose to Sullivan in a series of three, or that Johnson wouldn't lose to Jeffries in a series of three?
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I think that he was better than anybody who came before, him but that does not mean that he would beat them all.

    A very good version of Joe Louis lost to Max Schmeling for a start.

    Lets say that he fought a trilogy against Dempsey, or a trilogy against Tunney, or a trilogy against Johnson.

    Wouldn't there be one of those scenarios where he would pick up a loss?
     
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  14. andrewe

    andrewe Ezekiel 33 banned Full Member

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    Same boat here.
     
  15. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Johnson wouldn't lose to Jeffries in a series of 3.