Quality over quantity? Are Ruddock,Cooney,& Morrison top level hitters or are they not? How about Lyle,Foster,Gomez? Terrell and Liston said Williams was the hardest puncher they faced.Foreman included him in his top 3 judged from sparring sessions what credence you give their opinions is up to you.
I understand what you are saying. Shavers decked Holmes hard and he wobbled and made Ali shudder. It was evident Ernie had huge power. I get that. But his power was also backed up with upset wins with over Ellis and Norton. Even then, at the time, shavers overall stock whilst he was fighting, was measured with his defeats to Quarry, Stander and Bob Stallings. There was always enough doubt about him when he was around to not get carried away with him. Williams is unique. Like Shavers he looks a big handful in losing fights. But that's it. This is without the upset wins of Shavers. It's like Shavers career without knocking down a world champion or knocking out an Ellis or Norton type. Williams went right on back to looking good at a lower level rather than beat good guys even in upsets.
I'd say that it is with every punch but the left hook. In other words if the force of respective fighters hardest punch was measured, Joe might take it (but I'd still go for William's left hook). But if the aggregate force of both fighters' hooks, uppercuts and straight punches with both hand were measured, I'd be quite schocked if Williams didn't "win".
yes they're great punchers because they knocked out decent guys. Nobody is putting their punch power above Joe Louis or Jack Dempsey are they?
Your earlier statement was that to be considered an elite puncher a fighter had to ko elite opponents.Which elite opponents did those three ko?
Both big punchers no two ways about it! However a 1970 smoking joe tears a peak big cat a new arsehole! Imo
I don't think that washed up version of Ellis was much to write home about and Norton was also past his best and basically cannon fodder for anyone with a punch. But that's besides the point. You can be an extremely hard puncher without having the overall quality to beat good opposition. Razor Ruddock's best win was a shopworn Dokes, but I have no problem calling him a frighteningly powerful puncher. Bruno also lacked a list of impressive wins, but he punched hard as hell. A washed up Norton might be the closest to a win over a top 10 fighter for Cooney, but that doesn't make him any less of a hard puncher. On the other end of the spectrum you have Ali, who due to speed, timing and smarts has some amazing KO's. But he wasn't a very hard puncher. Let's not confuse skill with raw power.
What a dream fight shavers v big cat Williams would be! Might start a thread if I work out how to do it I'm still wet behind the ears on this forum lol
Its ok for you to think what you think. But we just need examples. There are whole hilight reels of Frazier knocking guys up into the air. Laying guys out. Blokes knocked as flat as a pancake. And the guys he does it too are riding high in their careers. Surely That's got to go a lot further than Williams and DeJohn knocking over blond cowboys and part time football players?
Williams might be the worst fighter I'd give a decent chance against Joe. Joe was always there to be hit in the first round or two. Ramos rocked him to his toes, so how would he fancy taking the bombs Williams unleashed on Liston early on in their two fights? I think he makes it through and chops Williams down by the mid rounds, but Williams could upset Joe if he hits home with his best punches.