Wing Chun

It's basically San Shou / San Da without a ring.

There is a huge difference between San Shou and what has become "kung fu" in my mind; San Shou is a completly legitimate combat sport with tons of talented athletes competing in a blend of striking and throws. "Kung Fu" in the western world is basically a bunch of dorks in pajamas.

So if people are talking about serious San Shou fighters, much respect, if they are talking about dorks who watched to many movies and "get stabbed for fun" they are idiots.

 

That's HORRIBLE! If some guys "attacks" anyone with a hearbeat that way (basically falling to their knees and laying there while the person hits them) they'll get their ass kicked. Lets see that guy do it against someone other than a hippy in his pajamas. Jesus christ...:rofl

 

Bad fake shot, bad sprawl, imaginary elbows.

Well, I'm sold.


Hell, even with that shot he could have completed the takedown, the guy can't even sprawl out of a fake takedown.

 

thanks for the vid... now I know that you know, but watch this....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc22z1-EYt0[/ame]

The guy in here is an exMMA, exNFL athlete and the other little dude is some sort of special marines army guy who has been trained in hand to hand combat by a style very similar to MMA. This show is on the Discovery CHannel so we know they play legit shiet. There are parts that they cut out for obvous reasons because who wants to show themself get owned by some FOB on Natonal TV (Not me! duh). Just watch and you can figure for yourself if this is real or not.

Oh yea... almost forgot, the stabbing part comes in at about 3:00. Watch and you tell me if thats legit?

 

Here is part two...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjMHu0Wwrss[/ame]

This some good shiet.... watch and learn my grasshoppers

 

balancing on three dull spears is a magic trick, not some skill he developed that makes him immune to pain and knife-stabs.

and the punching looks like boxing, the kicking looks like kickboxing

what of this is uniquely kung fu?

it looks like general mma
----------------------------------

 

Who mentioned anything about kung fu?

your arguing over nothing at all but off of mere hatred and ignorance.

Check yourself before you reck yourself youngsta.

From the sound of it, your just a die hard MMA fan who knows nothing else but how to grapple. What else do you know youngsta beside how to apply the dominant position?

 

Don't you see, when a guy get's so good at his respective karate(kung fu w.e) it starts to look like boxing, kickboxing or w/e actually works.

 

does anyone here see a major difference between the sparring at the 'kung fu world chamionships' and the fight quest videos you just showed me? The rules and protection look identical.

Well I don't hate anything about any of this. Its all an intensive physical activity and some of these people have decent kicking skill.

im saying none of its sparring looks unique when compared to other martial arts.

Ive heard you say this to almost everyone you arguing with to try to get under their skin

do you really think that is true about me?

is your spidey sense tingling yet?

any clues sherlock?

 

I see a lot of this, Im just surprised that it looks like their sparring was a recent invention. I mean, I dont see anything looking unique kung fu. You would think their would be some kind of technique or strategy that was specific to the martial art that they used that doesnt look like something out of every kickboxing class ever.

 

Does it matter who you are?

You make it seem like its important who you are?

From what it sounds like your pretty blinded and see things either black or white, thats why everythng starts to look like boxing or kicking boxing to you. Just check how you sound, youve got no clue about what else is out there but to classify ieverything as kickboxing or boxing. If you dont undersntand the difference and thnk that kung fu is karate then the conversation ends here, your thinking is only surface like your style there's not enough dept to bounce ideas with, its a big waste aof everythng like the way you live and your style only takes you as far as your thinking. No more free lessons.

 

San Shou (actual competitive kung fu) is a fairly recent invention in the line of chinese martial arts as a whole, but I would say it is definitely a unique sport in that the vast majority of its competitors train specifically for it and the techniques have been independently developed.

The reason it doesn't look like the clowns in monk suits jumping around is because it is a competitive sport against a resisting opponent involving full contact striking and throws.

There are only so many ways to actually strike or takedown a real opponent, that is why although many techniques in seperate sports look so similar. Much of Judo looks like much of wrestling, much of Muay Thai looks like Savate, etc.

In modern times a lot of this has to do with sharing of information, of course, but even before that there were moves that were developed indendent of each other but look quite similar. So what you are left with are more stylistic differences and favoring of certain techniques over others, based both on what the rule set is more condusive to and simple preference.

So basically when you put two humans going 100%, you are going to see a lot of similarity if the rules, goals, and scoring are similar.

In the last few decades you have seen different sports taking bits and pieces from other sports more and more; Eastern European Judoka brought a huge wrestling influence to the world Judo scene, Western boxers brought more uppercuts and combinations to Muay Thai, etc.

Basically the reason competitive San Shou / San Da looks so similar to other sports is because of two reasons: there being a limited number of ways to succesfully strike and grapple, and recent influence of techniques from other sports like Greco Roman wrestling and Muay Thai.

The reason why it looks so different than the pointless dancing done by the robe and sandal crowd is because those clowns aren't fighters, they are glorified dancers and stuntmen.

So on the one hand I have huge respect for kung fu in the form of San Shou / San Da fighters, but see the "Shaolin temple, orange robe, outdated weapons, etc" crowd as one step away from gymnastics....except gymnasts are actual athletes. Sadly since the vast majority of the world doesn't have the slightest clue about fighting, they see the pretty dancing and assume it is actually the "real fighting" compared to the comparetively less exotic fighters as boring or not "deadly!" :roll:

There is a thread somewhere around with some good Chinese San Shou Vids.

 

I can second that.

You can spot san shou / san da fighters when you see them if you cant then your still small time or just a MMA fanatic and you can quote me on that.

 

This is a mix of threads from several forums that I've pieced together that might be helpful.



This is a mix of several posts responding to a thread about a guys friend claiming that Wing Chun, basically the idiots who believe movie kung fu stuff works better than actual fighting and that ball grabbing and eye gouging are sufficient for ground fighting, is better than boxing or MMA in terms of real fighting so It may have some context that seems out of place.

Basically even though the terms are in some ways interchangeable, when I say wing-chung or kung fu I am talking about the delusional morons who tend to have Bruce Lee posters, when I say SanShou or SanDa I am talking about the most popular combat sport in china (maybe even national sport) that involves basically Muay Thai kickboxing without the elbows, but allows wrestling style throws but no ground grappling. When the match is classified as SanDa, rather than Sanshou, it allows knees

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanshou"]Sanshou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Highlight of one guy to get the sport introduced (This is actually an event called "king of Sanda where they are profesionals, fight in a ring, and don't wear headgear)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_3fEqy3Jg[/ame]

80kg World Championship Match (This is amateur, which is more regular, and fought on a mat with headgear)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P46G_TtCPY0[/ame]

San-Shou / San-Da is a part of/related to Wu-Shu; so if by Wu-Shu he means San-Da/Shou, a highly competitive sport similar to Thai-Boxing with takedowns he isn't quite an idiot. Of course he doesn't, and he is though.

China, in particular, has some absolutely fantastic San-Da fighters who are better, significantly better, than Cung Le in that sport. Given they have a billion people and it's their national martial art, and that The Art of War is a fantastic Chinese MMA promotion, their is a huge potential for Chinese San da fighters who develop a ground game (or prime Liddell takedown defense/ability to get back up) to make an enormous impact.

Of course it is yet another example of communism ruining the world since they don't have the freedom needed to learn and leave the country.

Now for some Art of War, the Chinese MMA organization. It is basically fought the best rules in modern MMA, a mix of the old pride rules; kicks to the head on the ground allowed plus the Unified US rules, elbows allowed.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_of_War_Fighting_Championship"]Art of War Fighting Championship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Now for some Art of War videos; like I said some serious Thai style striking combined with good high amplitude throw style wrestling.

So much potential in Chinese MMA.

Several Shows
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCWUyYCbqoc[/ame]
Art of War 9 highlights Serious potential in Chinese MMA.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_oWz2tu994[/ame]

Art of War 12 highlights (poor quality)
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkHbdJdU0XY[/ame]

 

Yes, decent chinese mma. I saw those videos from the earlier thread somewhere I think.

No, not particularly. On this forum we are allowed to discuss things which are not completely relevant if we want to. And when you brought it up I was surprised by the inaccuracy of your guess.

you brought it up here

Im not sure, maybe you are not paying attention to what you are typing, but Ill give you a hint. Read my name.

Im well aware of differences in kung fu and karate for example, however I'm not talking about the martial art as a whole (Forms, Breaking, weapons, history, meditative techniques, etc..) I'm talking about their sparring. Its a simple question and I can ask it again for you assuming this time you are reading your post. What Techniques/stances/strategies (or even variations of techniques) that are uniquely wing chun are used in their sparring?

Because I expected to see people fighting from mantis pose or blocking with fluid circular arm motions

Why would you 'second that' when he just said the orange-robed monks training at the shaolin temple are bull**** glorified gymnists, and in the last few posts you have been praising them in their ability to take a stab/they are the real deal?