Would Jimmy Young win..

Not many would beat the Foreman Ali faced that day. A true wrecking ball of a fighter. Young certainly was cute and would do anything he could to avoid being hit. However I don't think he would have stood a chance with that specific Foreman. foreman KO 2.

 

George would not have been the hardest hitting or tallest opponent Jimmy had ever faced at the time of Kinshasa. He'd already squared off with Shavers, had an eighth round knockout win of the far more experienced tall British southpaw Richard Dunn [who although china chinned was just a year away from gaining the BBBofC HW Title en route to the EBU HW Crown and his own shot at Ali six weeks after Jimmy blew his crack at Muhammad].

Young was 13-4-1 when Kinshasa took place, but he'd just won his first two ten round decisions, the second one in Caracas over Norton conqueror Jose Luis Garcia [who Ken had not yet avenged his knockout loss to]. Jimmy was the only foreigner to ever decision the 6'4" Garcia in Venezeula.

Kinshasa would have been perfect timing for Young. The following month, he'd get off the deck to draw with a fading Shavers in a match even Earnie knew he deserved to lose. For his next bout, in February 1975, he took Lyle to school for the first time in Honolulu, but Ron got the second shot at Al after Wepner by virtue of a superior overall resume. However, those results retroactively proved that Jimmy would have been ready for the Big George of late 1974.

Foreman hadn't gone any distance since Peralta II three years earlier. In fact, Young had completed over 33 rounds in competition during 1974 alone prior to Kinshasa than George had contested in his previous 12 bouts before facing Ali in the Jungle.

I think Clancy's post Kinshasa changes to Foreman's punching style actually served George better in Puerto Rico than his early 1970s tactics would have when he actually lost to Jimmy. Young would have seen Foreman's Kinshasa swings coming from miles away, but he wasn't one to rope a dope to absorb body shots like Ali did, nor would he have attempted dancing like Muhammad started out doing. George was the poster child for energy waste, Jimmy the energy conservation master.

How it would look would be a little different from Ali-Foreman, and rather familiar to Young-Foreman in 1977. Jimmy would continually retreat behind his quick double jab, making George's efficient ring cutting rather costly in giving away rounds. For all his powers, Foreman didn't have the X-ray vision to see through the left fist that would be glued to his face. Also, in 1977, Young hit George more in his wide open body than all Foreman's other opponents put together ever attempted. Even Ali worked George's body in Kinshasa. As in Puerto Rico, Jimmy would shrewdly ***** about Foreman's illegal tactics in crybaby fashion to Zack Clayton, and possibly steal a round or two in the process. And if he ducked through the ropes like he did with Ali, George might well react in a way which incurs a very severe penalty from Clayton. [Young may well plot for this after seeing Foreman hit Roman while down.]

The biggest difference between Young-Foreman over 12 in 1977 San Juan, and Young-Foreman over the championship distance in 1974 Kinshasa? George does not make it to the final bell in his bid to defend the title against upstart Jimmy. He was utterly spent after eight rounds against Ali. He couldn't last long enough to spend seven additional rounds fanning air at Young in the tropical heat and humidity of central Africa. He would eventually drop from dehydration if Jimmy didn't punch him down. Far more exhausting to miss punches entirely than to at least land on something.

Jimmy Young KO 14 George Foreman in October 1974. At some early point, George might stun or drop Jimmy, then fatally expend himself in a futile follow up attempt. Young had terrific survival skills and great speed of recuperation. Even Cooney could not eliminate a blood blinded Young before the bell sounded to end the round.

 

Young at that time was not ready for someone like the Foreman who fought Ali in 74. Young barely scaled 200 pounds at that time. His biggest win was against Garcia who was really not much of a fighter. Richard Dunn was a bum in reality so not much of a win. George would walk him down and knock him out quickly that night.

 

Young beats alot of guys because of his style, he always has close fights. Its hard to beat him convingcly

 

Young had the style to have given even the 1973/74 Foreman fits. Whether it would have been enough to have actually beaten George is debatable. A Young decision may still have been on the cards......................No pun intended.

 

That's a viewpoint and reasoning I fully understand. However, once again, that was the exact same time frame during which Jimmy had his ten round rematch draw with Shavers [which may well have been a stoppage win inside of two more rounds, while clearly a decision win over 12], then followed up with Lyle I. Retroactively, Shavers II and Lyle I clearly show that Young in fact would have been ready for Foreman in October 1974 [although he wouldn't prove himself as a serious contender until Lyle I in February 1975].

Jimmy did better over his first ten rounds against Lyle than a prime Ali would do against Ron in Lyle's very next bout.

Weight wise, Young was 197 for the Shavers rematch, which most eyewitnesses and one official judge had him winning handily despite Earnie's fourth round knockdown [the final decking of Jimmy's career by the only opponent to ever put him on the floor]. Peralta was 197 for Foreman I and 196 for Foreman II. In 20 rounds of action, George never had Greg down. Peralta was 36 and 37 years old for his two bouts with Foreman. Jimmy was two inches taller than Greg, and a mere two months older than George.

Lyle later failed to stop Peralta in two ten round tries, winning the first in his Denver hometown, but drawing in their Germany rematch. Greg retired after that November 1973 return with Ron, and perhaps the now reigning HW Champion Foreman breathed a sigh of relief at that official verdict with the knowledge Peralta III would NOT be one of his title defenses in 1974. More than Ali in Kinshasa, it was really Greg who set the template on how to hang with Foreman in the 1970s. George couldn't blame the torrid humidity in Madison Square Garden or the Oakland Coliseum Arena for the fact Peralta took him into the tenth round twice. Only a beast like Pastrano could stop prime Peralta in under five rounds.

Going into Foreman I, Goya had just boxed a ten round draw in a rematch with Bonavena. Five months after Foreman II, Peralta came off the deck in round two to halt rock lifting champion Urtain over eight in Madrid. Greg knew how to manage opponents with vastly greater physical strength, punching power and size. By late 1974, prodigy Young had acquired the same qualities.

Prior to taking on George in San Juan, Jimmy may well have studied the Foreman-Peralta footage as scrupulously as Ali did in 1974. Young was actually far better suited to make use of that information.

Y'know what? I think the October '74 version of Young takes this in a match scheduled for the championship distance! Furthermore, the youthful version of George with the best shot against either Ali or Young in Kinshasa was the edition who took the extended rematch with Peralta in May 1971. Frazier and Norton could be caught and blown out early, but a succession of quick knockout wins following Peralta II wasn't going to help him against the likes of a Bonavena [who could not only stand his ground, but move a lot better than Norton or Frazier, and had very serious endurance] Ali or Young. [Foreman has admitted he purposely avoided Jerry Quarry, but he couldn't have been too enthused about the idea of taking on Ringo either.]

I realize this is a provocative notion, but when I look at Foreman-Peralta, then Kinshasa, I feel there's a very strong case for an overconfident George being completely blindsided by an upstart he couldn't simply mow down quickly, then would be lost, all out to sea as the rounds ticked by and his frustration, fatigue and confusion mounted while his power diminished in the tropical dawn.

Many posters have frequently asserted than Foreman would have crushed even the peak Frazier of 1969, 1970 and the FOTC, without ridicule, due to styles. Likewise, I believe Jimmy was ready to befuddle, confuse and extend George into the championship rounds by late 1974. Foreman had better get him out early, else he might find himself in very serious trouble.

 

Young would have stuck his head through the loose ropes and gone out into the crowd, never to be seen again and that would have been a result.:good

 

That almost did happen to Foreman when he missed a wild hook early in round eight, but he'd have flown over the top rope. Now that this particular instance has been brought up, it may well have been JIMMY who made George miss so wildly that he actually would somersault over the loose top rope like that, all the way to the ground, possibly on his head. That may have been the fate Foreman avoided in San Juan by having his punches shortened up by Clancy. [At the time of Kinshasa, George was swinging so wildly hard that he sometimes did a complete pirouette when he missed. Young wasn't the kind of guy to try that kind of hay maker against.]

I'm sure many of us have seen loose ring ropes cause somebody to land on the back of his neck when those loose ropes were combined with a short ring apron. In Buddy Baer I, Louis was fortunate to land on the apron, instead of dropping completely from the ring. To me, that was truly the Bomber's closest call in a title defense, not Conn I or Walcott I.

 

The locals wouldn't want Young stinking out the jungle.

Young Bomaye !?

They'd probably spear him for impersonating a fighter.

 

Within the context of their careers, exactly how weird could that be?:think

San Juan, Puerto Rico. March 17, 1977. "JIMMY YOUNG! JIMMY YOUNG! JIMMY YOUNG! JIMMY YOUNG!," from a Spanish speaking audience at Roberto Clemente Stadium, on Saint Patrick's Day.

In Kinshasa, they'd probably be chorusing "Uyimbube" from Solomon Linda's "Mbube" [later retitled "Wimoweh" by the Weavers when Pete Seeger misheard the lyrics, then much better known as "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" by the Tokens, but most famous in Africa for Linda's original Evening Birds classic from 1939] urging Jimmy on against the big emotionless bully.

"Jimmy Young, Uyimbube, Jimmy Young, Uyimbube...", yeah, I don't know that I'd put it past the African locals to do that on their own.

 

The Lion Sleeps Tonight ? Yes, if he's watching Jimmy Young fight who can blame him.

 

He stunk out some joints ,they should have called him"The Flatulence".