Unstoppable Fighters Beaten by Brilliant Strategy 2 - Ali|Norton, Gibson|Hoost, Louis|Schmeling

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Oct 11, 2019.



  1. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Study on the tactics Schmeling and Norton used to cause two famous upsets, does this prove tactics can overcome ability sometimes?
    This content is protected
     
  2. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,382
    1,457
    Aug 18, 2012
    Schmeling was a great fighter. Devastating right hand puncher and a brilliant tactician. Today it’s lost to time the sensation and impact Schmeling created when he came to the US in the late 20’s. Thousands were turned away from his bouts in NY. Max was either hwt champion or a leading hwt contender from 1928 to his loss to Louis in 1938.
     
  3. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

    4,474
    3,843
    Sep 21, 2012
    JMM beating Pac
    Hopkins beating undefeated Trinidad
    Quintana beating undefeated Williams
     
    Gatekeeper likes this.
  4. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Yes JMM knew he could get Pac with that counter right, he kept trying to slip it in their and finally Manny made that mistake, Trinidad was too small at middle and couldn`t take those punches well, he was floored at welter a few times by lesser punchers than B-hop at a smaller weight, Williams wan`t in Pac`s class.
     
  5. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

    4,474
    3,843
    Sep 21, 2012
    I think his win over Joppy @ MW allowed some to think he could take a MW punch. I was a part of that bunch, so I'm guilty! Joppy went on for 7 years before getting stopped himself (had to look that up!) that made it all the more logic for Tito to campaign @ MW; he can ko MWs & he take it from one MW namely Joppy.

    & williams as in Paul was a WW, he moved up because neither Floyd nor Manny mentioned his name, let alone initials.
     
  6. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    But Williams was amazingly taall for a welter and should have been to benefit from his extra long reach like Hearns did at the higher weights. Did people really think Joppy was near B-hop`s level back then?
     
    George Crowcroft and Tramell like this.
  7. Tramell

    Tramell Hypocrites Love to Pray & Be Seen. Mathew 6:5 Full Member

    4,474
    3,843
    Sep 21, 2012
    yeah that reach IMO made FLoyd semi retire. That was exactly when he left.

    As far as Joppy really don't remember. Online forums were really just beginning so all my boxing info came via magazines or Saturdays at the barber shop!
     
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,102
    41,931
    Mar 3, 2019
    The issue was that his pure aggressive style didn't really allow him to
     
    Gatekeeper and mark ant like this.
  9. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,682
    Jul 25, 2015
    Spinks VS Qawi.

    Harada vs Jofre.
     
  10. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Do you think Qawi had more talent than Spinks then?
     
  11. Ken Ashcroft

    Ken Ashcroft Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,645
    4,801
    Dec 23, 2008
    Ali was hardly considered unbeatable when Ken Norton beat him in 1973. Joe Frazier had already achieved that feat two years earlier.
     
    mark ant likes this.
  12. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Yes but Ali looked trim and sharp in his rematch v Frazier, Norton still needed clever tactics to beat the still superior Ali who went on to give a great performance v Foreman where he displayed quick counter punching hand speed that Norton just didn`t have.
     
    Abysmal Brute1981 likes this.
  13. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,682
    Jul 25, 2015
    Both very, very talented fighters with very different physical attributes and mentalities. I couldn't really differentiate them that way, to be honest Mark.
     
  14. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    25,057
    28,692
    Jan 8, 2017
    That s true Ken, and imo even if Ali hadn't lost to Norton, he'd have still been seen as finished or at least way past best.
     
  15. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    oh okay, you were just saying Spinks used a specific gameplan to overcome Qawi`s nifty head movement.
     
    roughdiamond likes this.