Besides Billy Grime, other Australian-based fighters who fought in the United States during the 1920s and 1930s included George Cook, Paul Demsky (Russian-born), Harry Stone (American-born to begin with), Llew Edwards (Welsh-born), and Fred Henneberry (only one fight in the U.S). I believe that I am missing a number of other such fighters. It appears that Demsky listed his real name as Paul Aldridge while traveling from Manila to San Francisco during 1926. But his mother's name was Mrs. Irene Shahnovsky, a resident of South Brisbane, Queensland at the time. I seriously doubt that the fear of not being treated fairly in the United States was a major concern for Australian fighters during the 1920s and 1930s. If it was a major concern, I think it was somewhat misplaced because American professional boxing was governed at the local or state levels in the country at the time. As a result, it is doubtful that there would have been a concerted effort nationally to give the Australian boxers a bad deal in the United States during the 1920s and 1930s. Professional boxing was on a massive scale in the United States during the 1920s and 1930s. Before World War I, U.S. professional boxing was far less massive, which helped make it much easier for Australian boxers to have a far bigger impact on the sport in the U.S at that time than afterwards. - Chuck Johnston
The chap that put this piece about Billy Grime into his book is a professional gambler and Australian sport media identity who loves a punt on the horses.I should phone him tomorrow morning whilst his radio show is on and pull him up about the inaccuracies that he has allowed to be published, which now become folklore. Writing and reporting about boxing in the past had many tangibles that bring about debate in this current day and age of fight fans that love the historical aspect of boxing. Myself being a person who can sometimes read between the lines I would not doubt it if, Billy Grime went over to the USA and Panama and fought along with what the promoters and bookies wanted him to do and took a nice little bundle of US dollars back home to Australia. Mate if I was a journeyman boxer back in those days and could earn more from knowing the outcomes of what was prearranged, I would be tempted to take the money and come back home to the other side of the World with my pockets filled with cash. After all you would be a big fish in a small pond with a lot of cash plus seeing the sights of the USA on a boxing holiday. Mcvey thanks for pointing out the inaccuracies for me. When I read the article I could not believe that someone would sit ringside twirling a pistol around their fingers. Though I do believe fights can have prearranged outcomes whether fighters like it or not. So possibly it is better to deal with the devil you know. Even though the article is inaccurate I do believe in the saying where there's smoke there's fire, and saying that it still leaves you and me wanting absolute proof on dodgy dealings regarding Aussie boxers fighting in the USA open to debate. Hopefully all the old Australian newspapers will be archived on the net so more old snippets of boxing history can come to light. Cheers' Cakey.
Carroll won all three against Leto, he also beat Izzy Jannazzo, Bep van Klaveren, who was ranked the number one contender to Ross' title at the time, Jack Portney, Willard Brown, Ron Richards and Fred Henneberry. He was crude looking but also very awkward and large for a welter. He also threw a lot of punches, a Calzaghe like slapper is an apt description. Whether or not he would have beaten Ross is purely speculation but youre well and truly selling him short there.
Regarding betting on pre-arranged fights we know this has happened ,the late 40.and 50's had a spate of this in the US But for anyone to make a betting coup you would need fore-knowledge of an upset eg you need to know that the favourite will be losing.As I said in my last post, given their current records I would have expected Lampe to be the clear favourite over Grime so the result that happened would not have been a surprise and the odds would have been heavily in favour of the home boy winner.Therefore there would have been no incentive to offer Grime a $5000 bribe. I would be willing to bet that Grime's purse was significantly below that. Grime lost approximately a third of his fights. The guy you would want to have on the payroll would be the favourite, the guy on a roll.For example Jake Lamotta v Billy Fox The only other motivation for bagged fights is to build up an up and comer who cannot not be relied upon to win without some"assistance" like they notoriously did with Carnera As you allude to, proof is required, and very hard to get. Until any is forthcoming ,I think we owe it to Billy Grime to say he was an honest but limited s****per, who kept an insanely busy schedule. I don't want to appear to have a downer on Australia ,I am a big admirer of the country and its people. Every year I go to Thailand I have friends there ,we spend quite a bit of our time in the Aussie Bar having the craic with expat Aussies who are great guys.
You're correct, I misread it my apologies! Would you agree both Richards and Henneberry were not at their best at welterweight. I'm not familiar with either Portney or Brown so I won't comment on them. I think saying that the master boxer Ross outboxes Carroll is a reasonable position to take and that the atg welter weight McLarnin, who had a devastating right hand would ko him ,is also a reasonable opinion to hold.
carroll v mclarnin would be a better fight imo, i'd favor jimmy too but not nearly as much as i would ross.
Carroll wasn't a big banger,why do you give him more chance against Ross? His size ? He sure looked an awkward sod.
i meant less chance v ross. it looks that mclarnin's style is better for carroll(from the limited film), mclarnin was more hittable and a bit slower than ross and more aggressive. he is a lot more powerfull too, but carroll's record indicates he had a decent chin.
I've known about trove for a few years thanks for the link anyway. Had a laugh when I pressed on the link you provided because up came an article about Victor Harbour in South Australia. The funny or spooky thing is one side of my family were one of the first few families to settle there. I thought fark someone must know my family history as well as a lot of boxing history. :good
I don't want to appear to have a downer on Australia ,I am a big admirer of the country and its people. Every year I go to Thailand I have friends there we spend quite a bit of our time in the Aussie Bar having the craic with expat Aussies who are great guys. No offence taken at all Mcvey.
