There are a fair few complaints on this forum about Duran never losing mythical H2H matchups at lightweight but how do do think he'd do against these guys, who all fought between 135 and 140 pounds at their peaks: Barney Ross Henry Armstrong Carlos Ortiz Jose Napoles Antonio Cervantes For the record, I think these are all pick'em fights and Duran could quite conceivably lose any of them. But would he?
Snap! That's exactly my view as well. Interested to know what you think would give Armstrong and Napoles the edge though.
Well Duran and Armstrong were very similar in style and stature with Duran having an edge in power and Armstrong having a size advantage. I'd pick the bigger stronger guy to win on the inside. Not all bigger guys but Armstrong I would Napoles at LW was very slick, slicker than Leonard was and even in Montreal Leonard did well against the best Duran whilst off his game, Napoles wouldn't be off his game and would box to a decision by not tieing him up and moving away
Great thread Jel. Barney Ross - Duran wins close, hotly contested fight. I think Ross is too straight up and down in style, and Duran would figure him out eventually. Ross was tough as hell though, can't really see him being KOd at any point. Henry Armstrong - Hell of a fight, one I always struggled with. Armstrong has the tenacity,skill and ridiculous workrate, but Duran has the power and IQ (not saying Henry is lacking). I could see fouls and rough housing becoming major points of the bout. I'll pick Armstrong to play devil's advocate. Neither would be the same after this war. Carlos Ortiz - Duran. Carlos had legendary skill, but wasn't 'phenomenal' enough to beat Duran in my view. Would be close. Jose Napoles - My favourite fantasy match up. Both slick, aggressive boxers, I could see a Duran win coming down to sheer toughness and grit moreso than any skill of his. Napoles would have to be very smart against Duran, pick his spots wisely. This battle would take something out of both. Antonio Cervantes - Duran. I always thought Duran would beat Cervantes. Not taking anything away from Kid Pelembe, but I think Duran was better in most departments.
Wow some tough fights here that I would call close to 50/50 I would favor Napoles Armstrong I would favor Duran over Ortiz and Cervantes and Ross But not with certainty I need to think on these.
The only one I would bet against Duran would be Napoles. Armstrong would be a rough fight but I believe Duran beats him because of his defensive ability,and physical strength. Hell of a fight though Duran vs Armstrong would be. Cervantes, Ross, Ortiz ,all great fighters, but all of them would lose to Duran prime vs prime. Duran's biggest strengths (Intelligent pressure,defensive skills while being aggressive,power, wrestling, and physical strength ) I don't think any of the 3 could handle.
I see Duran beating all of them. The biggest struggle would be Napoles imo. Napoles though, could be roughed up and taken out of his technical game. I see Duran being all over him and not letting him get proper distance or to set. The next toughest would be Hank, but again, I just don't like the style here. Armstrong would be smaller than Duran, and I just don't think it's a good idea to come at a peak prime Duran and expect good results, even if you're Hank. Armstrong could win a decision based on workrate, but I'd favor Duran to land punishing blows will avoiding more than Hank. Next toughest imo would be Cervantes. He's taller, rangy and has excellent power, but just not skilled enough to beat Duran. Both Ross and Ortiz I view with about the same chances, which is the least of the group. Just don't like their physical disadvantages and style against Duran. All good fights.
Great responses all! I'm slightly surprised by the relative consensus, although I have to say I agree with most of the comments here. Duran-Ross: Ross had one of the greatest chins ever and greatest hearts. There is no way Duran stops him. But Barney's lack of pop would ultimately cost him and Duran I think would be able to outhustle him at close quarters. Duran-Armstrong: This would be super close. I don't see an obvious size advantage for either fighter. Duran was brilliant defensively whilst attacking but Armstrong was relentless. I see this as an out an out brawl with no quarter given by either man. Split decision Armstrong. Duran-Ortiz: Ortiz was a great all-rounder. He wasn't necessarily oustanding in any one category which sounds harsh, like I'm damning him with faint praise, but we're talking about a pretty complete fighter with no obvious weaknesses. I see this as a challenge all the way for Duran but similar to the Ross fight, his extra aggression and power at this weight carries the day and sees him edge the decision. Duran-Napoles: I can see this fight going one of two ways, with Roberto outhustling Napoles to take him out of his natural game or Napoles keeping Duran honest with his silky combos and boxing his way to a decision. Right now I'm picking Mantequilla. Duran-Cervantes: I always felt that Cervantes between 1972 and 1974 would have the game to take Roberto, who wasn't necessarily as refined defensively during that period as he would become later in the 70s. But Duran from 1976 onwards I'm sure would have Kid Pambele's number. I think 1975 would be the most intriguing time for the fight to take place. I pick Manos de Piedra to take it but not by much.
Duran over Armstrong (Armstrong's defense not good enough for someone like Duran and takes a lot of punishment), Ross (Duran by late round ref stoppage), and Ortiz (UD for Duran). Duran over Napoles at anything under WW. Only Montreal Duran can beat Napoles out of any version of Duran at WW. Jel's post above is exactly the same as my thoughts on Duran vs. Cervantes.
Top post. I think i'd edge ever so slightly to Armstrong but I think Duran would beat Napoles at 140 in an extremely high level encounter. It would be the sort of fight you could teach from.
Duran had that speed/power combination that was uncommon. Combine that with a high workrate its a rough nite for any of these guys. Ross went the distance with Hank because Armstrong agreed to carry him the last few. It was a respect thing. Duran had no such restrictions like any human feeling for his opponent. Sorry Ross gets knocked out. Cervantes gets stopped in an entertaining fight. Probably midrounds. Duran too quick. Napoles has the best chance here. Toss up. He was nice with those counters and he was his nickname...Butter. He earned that nickname. Armstrong- very physical inside fight. Problem for Hank is Duran was the better puncher. At mid-range and the outside Henry will pay a toll. Duran by dec.
The version of Duran that fought Palomino could run most Welterweights out of the ring. Carlos was a very good 147lber and Duran toyed with him winning 10 out of 10 with a KD. Palomino didn't make an excuse about fighting the wrong strategy. He just got his ass kicked.
