In this thread, I will be asking for a vote for the best five wins among Lineal / Ring Magazine champions. We will go in chronological order, starting with Mr. John L Sullivan. To define what a best win ask yourself and take in account the following: ) 1 The formability of the opponent when the match happened. Was the opponent Young & Green, Pre-prime, Prime, Slightly past his prime, Past his prime or shot? 2 ) The status of the opponent when the match happened. Was the opponent champion? Was he ranked? Would he have been ranked pre 1920? How highly ranked #1, #5, #10 3 ) The conclusiveness of the result. Did he win via KO up on points, TKO up on points, win a wide decision, win closely on points, Win via split decision, or a win via controversial decision? 4 ) You may only list a name once ( Late rule ) There will be three days of debate, newspaper posting and hopefully some learning on the process. I'll tally the score for the ESB top 5 best wins. To keep easier to score easy, please This content is protected Mods can make this a sticky thread if they wish. How this is scored? After 3 days, we count all the names mentioned and give them a total score based on where people voted them. A first place vote = 5 points A second place vote = 4 points A thrid place vote = 3 points A fourth place vote = 2 points A fifth-place vote = 1 point In case of a tie, whoever got more got the highest single ( or multiple ) vote advances. If still tied whichever fighter got more discussion. I will edit and post the top 5 best wins here after each fighter: Sullivan 1. Kilrain 2. Mitchell 3. Burke 4. McCaffrey 5. Greenfield Corbett 1 ) McCoy 2 ) Choynski 3 ) Sullivan 4 ) Kilrain 5 ) Mitchell Fitzsimmons best five wins: 1. Corbett 2. Sharkey 3. Ruhlin 4. Maher 5. O'Brien Jeffries best five wins 1, Fitzsimmons 2, Corbett 3. Sharkey 4. Ruhlin 5. Griffin Hart's best five wins 1. Johnson 2. Root 3. O'Brien 4. Ruhlin 5. Ferguson Burns best five wins 1.Hart 2. O'brien 3. Flynn 4. Lang 5. Moir Johnson's best five wins 1,Denver Ed Martin 2. McVey 3. Burns 4. Jeffries 5. Langford Willard's best five wins 1. Jack Johnson 2. Moran 3. Morris 4. Floyd Johnson 5. Pelky Dempsey's five best wins 1. J. Sharkey 2. Fulton 3. Gibbons 4. Miske 5. Willard Tunney's top 5 1. Dempsey 2. Greb 3. Gibbons 4. Heeney 5. Weinert Schmeling top 5 wins 1. Louis 2. J. Sharkey 3. Stribling 4. Uzcudun 5. Walker J Sharkey's top five wins 1. Wills 2. Schmeling 3 Loughran 4. Carnera 5. Godfrey Carnera's best five wins 1. J. Sharkey 2. Loughran 3. Uzcudun 4. Schaff 5. Levinsky Baer's best five wins. 1. Schmeling 2. Carnera 3. Schaff 4. Farr 16 5. Galento Braddock's best five wins: 1. Baer 2. Farr 3. JH Lewis 4. Lasky 5. D. Jackson Joe Louis best five wins: 1. Schmeling 2. Walcott 3. M Baer 4. Conn 5. Carnera Charles best five wins: 1. Walcott 2. Louis 3. Ray 4. Maxim 5. Layne Joe Walcott best five wins. 1. Charles 2. Bivins 3. Ray 4. Maxim 5. Baski Rocky Marciano's best five wins. 1. Walcott 2. Charles 3. Moore 4. Layne 5. Louis Floyd Patterson's best five wins. 1. Ingo 2. Moore 3. Bonevena 4. Machen 5. Chuvalo Ingemar Johansson’s 5 best wins 1. Patterson 2. Machen 3. Erksine 4. Cooper 5. Neuhaus Liston's top 5 wins: 1. Patterson 2. Machen 3. Folley 4. Williams 5. Valdes Ali's best five wins 1. Foreman 2. Liston 3. Frazier 4. Norton 5. Patterson Frazier's top 5. 1. Ali. 2. Ellis 3. Quarry 4. Bonevena 5. Machen Foreman's top 5 1. Frazier 2. Norton 3. Moorer 4. Lyle 5. Chuvalo Leon Spinks best five wins 1. Ali 2. Mercado 3. Evangelista 4. Righetti 5. Burnett Holmes best 5 wins 1. Norton 2. Witherspoon 3. Mercer 4. Shavers 5. Cooney Mike Spinks top 5 wins 1. Holmes 2. Cooney 3. Tangstand 4. Johnson 5. Ranquello Tyson's best five wins 1. Spinks 2. Tucker 3. Holmes 4. Ruddock 5. Berbick Douglas top 5 wins 1. Tyson 2. Berbick 3. McCall 4. Page 5. Cobb Holyfield's top five wins 1. Bowe 2. Tyson 3. Moorer 4. Foreman ( 90's version ) 5. Holmes ( 90's version ) Bowe's top five wins Holyfield Tubbs Donald Hide Golota Moorer's top 5 wins. 1. Holyfield 2. Schulz 3. Botha 4. Jirov 5. Cooper Briggs top 5 wins 1. Liakhovich 2. Foreman 3. Mercer 4. Calloway 5. Valdez Lewis top 5 wins 1. Vitali Klitschko 2. Holyfield 3. Rhaman 4. Mercer 5. Tua Vitali's Klitschko's top five wins 1. Sanders 2. Peter 3. Adamek 4. K Johnson 5. Gomez Rhaman's top five wins 1. Lewis 2. Sanders 3. Barrett 4. Meehan 5. Sullivan Wladimir Klitschko's top 5 wins 1. Povetkin 2. Byrd 3. Chagaev 4. Haye 5. Ibragimov Fury's top 5 1. Wlad Klitschko 2. Wilder 3. Chisora 4. Cunningham 5. Wallin 6 points. END.
John L Sullivans top 5 best wins! Debate and voting ends in three days, then we move on to Corbett. My vote 1. Charlie Mitchell 2. Jake Kilrain ( London Rules ) Could be argued as his best win. 3. Jack Burke 4 . Domincik McCaffrey 5. Frank Herald
John L Sullivan Its hard to argue with your list so I will concur with your list. I need to read more about Sullivan. I have read about Sullivan vs Mitchell a while ago so I fully agree with Mitchell being #1 My vote is the same as yours. 1. Charlie Mitchell 2. Jake Kilrain ( London Rules ) Could be argued as his best win. 3. Jack Burke 4 . Domincik McCaffrey 5. Frank Herald
Sullivan is a difficult one, because of the paucity of the information surrounding his opponents. The lists offered above are reasonable enough. I would probably put Killrain at 1, owing to the reputation that built up around him before the fight. Many people really saw him as the heir to the throne, and the LPR rule set was seen as giving him an advantage. I might perhaps put McCaffrey at #2, because he beat Mitchell. Burke is a guy who was not that highly regarded at the time, but arguably had the better of Mitchell and Greenfield, and of course beat a green Corbett. Herald was much hyped before Sullivan beat him, but didn't do much after that, so I wonder if Greenfield might be a better pick. It is possible that Flood, Ryan and Elliot were better than their records suggest.
Corbett and Johnson will be super interesting ones, I will wait before posting anything for those 2 though
Can't wait to do that. I won't help you with Sullivan, I don't know much about his era but I will participate with Corbett and on
There is evidence of this. His surviving paper record is almost non existent, but people seem to have rated him, both as a bare knuckle and gloved fighter!
Up next is Jim Corbett, who has an unusual resume. He doesn't have many listed fights, however he fought 9 different men who made the hall of fame, winning his share. As a late rule, you can only list a name once among the top five. 1. Choynski 2. McCoy - ( This fight was a war, not a fix ) 3. Kilrain 4. Mitchell 5. Sullivan
James J Corbett 1. Choynski 2. Tom Sharkey 3. McCoy 4. Kilirain 5. Sullivan Pity we don't have a result for Peter Jackson-Corbett match
Jim Corbett 1. Charles "Kid" McCoy - I just assume that this fight wasn't a fix. Corbett was past his best at that point and he beat one of the best contenders of this era, I don't care how much he weighed. 2. John Sullivan - I know that he was way past his prime and that he wasn't on his best condition. Still, Corbett was first and the only one who took advantage of that. Nobody else stopped John. 3. Jake Kilrain - Jake was a top contender in his prime during this time. I don't know a lot about him, but he seemed to have strong reputation. 4. Joe Choynski - Choynski wasn't your regular beginner, he was experienced amateur fighter and a real threat for the best of the division. 5. Charlie Mitchell - he was way past his best when he fought Corbett, although it's still a nice win I wouldn't give Jim too much credit for that. I don't include Jackson fight because it was a draw (otherwise, this would be his best fight). I don't include Sharkey draw either because Sharkey was inexperienced then and he beat up Corbett badly, he should have lost that fight from what I've read.
1. Sullivan (whatever his condition he was the champion) 2. Killran (this seems to have done a lot to legitimize him as a contender, more about it later) 3. McCaffrey 4. McCoy 5. Choynski