But he does very well at euro level. Hes beaten the likes of Dunne, Martirosyan and Booth. Obviously he will lose to any world class fighter he fights, but hes at the same level as Rendall Munroe. He may lose world titles fights, but hes the kind of fighter I could see getting multiple cracks at titles or at least eliminators. It Certainly it doesnt look like theres too many fighters at euro level who can beat him.
Agreed. He has improved an awful lot in the last few years. More patient. His performance against Booth was very impressive. Even though Booth is shot, he won every round and stopped him. I hope this isn't a case of too much too soon for Frampton. Going in against a tough experienced guy like Kiko in your 11th fight is a huge task.
Martinez is exactly what a European level fighter should be - a decent a tough challenge before world level. I have him top 15 in the world at Super Bantam right now. Simular to a Brian Magee. Not sure how Sport of Kings can say he is the same level as Munroe when Munroe beat with twice comfortably.
Munroe is better than him, but hes still at the same level if you get what I mean. Just because a European fighter beats another European fighter in a title bout doesnt mean hes a level ahead of him. I cant see Munroe winning a world title against anyone, with the sole exception of Takalani Ndou, which would be a 50/50 fight. The same way as Martinez, who will likely move on to more eliminators and maybe a title shot but he will lose when he gets there as Rendall would.
Munroe would have beaten Molitor, he'd probably beat that South African guy who beat Molitor recently also. He's a very poor title holder. I believe Arce, Poonsawat, Cordoba, Vazquez Jr and obviously Rigo would be too much for Munroe.
Munroe wouldnt have beaten Molitor when he was in his prime though, about four years ago, Molitor has been going steadily downhill since his loss to Caballero. in hindsight he was going to lose eventually. The fact that he lost against a man he beat twice further confirms how far he had fallen.
I think Munroe's a level above him. Martinez couldn't hang with Ndlovu really, early rounds aside, and Ndlovu's fringe world class in his own right. Munroe's in and around the periphery of the top 10, and could beat some of the fighters there, the same can't be said for Kiko I don't think. The danger he presents in the first 4/5 rounds aside, he's probably the most limited fighter in the top 15-20. He gets clueless, and has no idea how to implement his power, Munroe's not that good, but he knows how to play to his strengths, and how to utilise them. Which is mostly the fact that he's a feather fighting at super-bantam, and he's able to make good advantage of the size disparity that often exists between him and his opponents. Of course, as we saw he gets shown up at the highest level, Nishioka won almost every round, and I think he gets a bit overrated. But unless Kiko's got a cast iron jaw/body, he'd get stopped handily by Tosh IMO. There's a difference between them I think, Martinez is elite European class(which would normally mean fringe world, but the divisions got a lot of depth at the top), and Rendall's fringe world class for me.
Very good points and i'd agree with most of them. Rendall is obviously a better fighter than Kiko, hes superior to him in every way except for power and he has a far better engine .I think there is still isnt much to seperate them though in terms of their potential at world level, both would lose at the world class. Munroe would be able to do better than Kiko at the highest level though, which is why I thought a fight between him and Ndlovu was 50/50. Im using the term fringe world class loosely, I realise that the 122 division has heated up over the last year or so and neither of these guys would be able to cut it with the very best. So its for that reason that id classify them both as ''Fringe class''
It's a dangerous fight for Frampton but these are the sort of fights top prospects should be taking. If he gets by Kiko he is up there around contender status but there are also some good domestic fights there for him which can provide decent challenges and nice paydays, ie Casey, Quigg, Booth.
Fair enough. It is a very broad spectrum to be fair. There are a lot of fighters to try to break up into a certain group. There isn't all that much between them all in all, I just think Munroe's a good bit better and gives a greater account of himself at world level. If Munroe's as good as he was, I might just agree with you on that at this stage.
That fight isnt made yet lads- would be a great fight on the undercard of a Paul McCloskey wba interim world title tilt. Here is Carl Frampton's view on the fight http://www.irish-boxing.com/2011/07/jackal-ready-to-assianate-europe-champion-kiko-martinez/
This is a tough, tough fight folks. Martinez is a better fighter than I ever thought he was. The stoppage of Booth was a really good win. I would have liked one or two more bouts first, but it's a great fight no doubt about it
The thing i worry about carl a bit is: who is his main trainer? I know mcguigan is involved and he is invaluable but he aint really a boxing trainer i think, more of a tactics on the night and knowledge, experience. His son shane does the S&C but hes very young and not an experiencedm knowledgeable trainer. is it gerry storey? i think he still does a lot on the amateur side - does he still train frampton? I just hope he has someone in his corner who can help him in a tough fight and improve his already good skills