I've not thought of it too much Flea but although I;d have Hearns over Curry H2H (and Hearns over most welters!) I think Curry beat the better fighters. If you were in a mean mood, Cuevas aside, you could really savage Hearns career at 147.
Cuevas was on the slide by then & in a stylistic nightmare against Tommy who was a freakishly good welter for the first few rounds. Only the very best would be able to beat him imho.
This is true but Espedas but a quality, if lazy operator. He also gets kudos for his performance against Leonard, a losing, but proving showing IMO. As you know, I rate Marlon Starling very high, so there's no danger in me underrating Don ;-) Maybe it's the 'wow' factor with Tommy, but I see him ahead even if there's barely a place between them (if that) and, it's pretty much 'what you like' when you're rating fighters of this quality. Duran? Top 30? Or outside? I know you're not into lists but can you see my reasoning? Cokes is a hard one to gauge for me. Clearly superb (won vacant title but in that era) but without seeing the fights I find it hard to see how he got the better of LMR so many times (having seen his fights with Griffith I wouldn't be amazed if he'd been shafted somewhat, those decisions were all over the place, why not these) his defences weren't up to much either. But that's probably down to two things: a lack of info on my part on the opponents he defended against. And the fact I haven't done too much research into how his fights with LMR went down. An early loss [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo9zzGccQ0o&feature=related[/ame] Loss to Stable, of course a quality fighter in his own right. Good technical matchup this one, Stables head movement Vs Cokes' range, and their exchanges when they meet up are entertaining too. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FVgIHibiHA[/ame] One of Cokes' defences. I know little of Pavilla other than the fact he had previously drawn with Cokes over 10. Here, Cokes stops him in the 10th. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDC2DYDmhyk[/ame] Here, an outstanding performance from Cokes; the best I've seen him. The next defence following the Pavilla fight, and the last before his drubbing at the hands of Napoles. Ludick was a capable southpaw who held two win over future 154lb champion Carmelo Bossi. Cokes really finds room to show the diversity of his right hand here. 9:23 for instance, the tripling of his right hand here is just mind blowing. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu2L0NxRfHA&feature=related[/ame] What are your opinions on Cokes? Obviously a top-notch Welter, but how great?
Thanks for putting things into perspective. Are we saying Israel Vasquez over Meza? What about Payakaroon Vs Vasquez/Marquez at 122? I've just had a brainwave: Alberto Davila needs an entry, a real underrated gem IMO.
I'll do Leonard next week, both of them!!! Duran in the top 30? No for me, he beat Leonard H2h is maybe another matter but still not convinced. Izzy to beat Meza. Vasquez to beat SP SP to beat Izzy.
Marquez to beat Payakaroon you mean? I'm very much of the opinion that if the Thai hadn't has been weight drained that Fenech wouldve caught up to him later anyway. Payakaroon was hard as **** though, sadly whilst his experience helped him get on, it also meant he joined the sport past his physical prime. Thoughts on Cokes tomorrow please mate :good
Could someone do Joe Gans and Ted Kid Berg? I'd like to no more about these too. Plus Mods, MAKE THIS A SKICKY!!!
I;m actually against this being a sticky now I think of it. Then, if it drops off, someone who wants to make a proper contribition needs to look for it (like I did) and when it pops back up again it's exciting! I think if it's a sticky it might well have more, ahem, **** posts (for lack of a better term, have only just got up, have yet to skin up so my brain isn't orking properly) I can take a look at Gans. I'll ask a poster who is really, really good on him if I get stuck, I knoww the basics but haven't delved in as as deep with him as I have with, for instance, Barbados Joe Walcott.