Fedor wasnt knocked out-Herb Dean's premature stoppage robbery-Dana compliments Heb

Yeah, I watched it again on Youtube and you're pretty much right.

Wandy was out cold on the canvas and Rampage leaped in and gave him a brutal smash. After that shot, the ref jumped in and held Rampage, but he was ignored and Rampage delivered two more vicious blows.

Rampage was determined to punch the hell out of a sleeping man. He should possibly have been disqualified and/or fined.

 

Yup. I found it incredibly hypocritical that Babalu got fired for holding a choke a few seconds too long which is far less dangerous than slamming a completely unconscious man in the face three times while he's doing the curly toes on the mat. If I remember correctly nothing was even made of it on the broadcast or in the fight media.

 

I dont care if brock was covering up. He was lucky to stay in that fight that long.

Dean didnt stop the fight when Fedor was out. He stopped it after Henderson landed 2 blows to the back of the head. Technically you could argue fedor deserved time to recover because of that but like I said to me the stoppage was fine.

 

wow this should put a end to this!!!!he couldnt even stand lol

 

Somewhere in the Twilight Zone it makes sense to call Fedor glass jawed . I can't agree with it.

 

Fedor is the man but, herb made the right call.

 

Good post but I think you inadvertantly highlight some of the things that will negatively affect Fedor's legacy and standing in the long run.

You are right that he relied on that extra little bit of speed and power that other fighters didn't have. When he lost that slight edge, he lost fights because the brutal truth is that he didn't have anything to back it up. What technique he used to have he had lost, because he had become a lazy fighter for the last few years.

Isn't it fair to expect that the GOAT be more than just a physical freak with great recuperative skills?

In other sports, the GOAT evolves and adapts as he ages. He uses more than physicality to overcome his opponents.

For example, in the early days Muhammed Ali was all about blinding speed and movement. He was simply too fast for his opponents to catch up with.

Yet most of his greatest wins came after he lost that physical advantage. He adapted and used his experience and the force of his will to overcome opponents who were physically superior to him. The Ali who fought Foreman in Zaire was nothing close to the physical speciman that he was when he took the title from Liston. But he had the experience and the cunning to maximise every attribute he did still have, and minimize the role of his physical weaknesses.

Fedor has not done that. Not at all. I give him a pass for Bigfoot, but Werdum and Henderson, he was well capable of winning those fights. In fact, even as they played out, he should have won both of them. Both times he lost not because he didn't have fast, powerful, accurate hands anymore, (he did), but because he simply tried to overwhelm them with sloppy technique, unmindful of what they were capable of doing in return. This had still worked against the competition he'd had the last few years, but when he faced Werdum and Henderson it was a different story. Both men were good enough to remain calm and instantly seize the opportunity that Fedor handed to them. As Fedor himself used to do to opponents when they thought they had him and lost their heads because of it.

:hat

 

In response to Haggis's post above:

There was nothing "inadvertent" about my post. I do not claim to be an MMA authority like some guys on here are, but I simply called it as I saw it. I thought my post was a fair assessment of Fedor and his place in MMA history.

Regarding Muhammed Ali...I have to agree with you. To dominate one era with dazzling natural gifts, then have then best 3.5 years of your prime taken away from you, then to come back and dominate the toughest era of boxing with a new set of skills...well...that's the main reason people call Muhammed "The Greatest." That's why he was crowned "Sportsman of the Century." Probably nobody in any combat sport will achieve what he did again.

What I'm saying is it's unreasonable to use Ali as a benchmark for what a great sportsman should be. Ali in many ways is in a class of his own. Most mere mortals can't reach those heights.

Another example of a dazzling natural talent is Roy Jones Jnr, and he started to lose fights when his natural gifts eroded. But I think Fedor's career is much greater than Roy Jones's (if it is possible to compare MMA to boxing) because unlike Jones...Fedor took on all comers. For ten years he remained undefeated, and fought the best competition available. He fought and beat arguably the best MMA striker ever (Cro Cop). He fought and beat arguably the best MMA submission artist ever (Big Nog)

So I think it is fair to rank Fedor as uniquely dominant for a very long (almost 10 year) stretch in MMA. It is the kind of long, undefeated run that we only see with rare, great boxing champions like Joe Louis (champion for 12 years) and Carlos Monzon (champion for 7 years) and Marvin Hagler (champion for 7 years).

As for Fedor winning for so long with nothing besides his physical advantages...I disagree. As well as his speed and reflexes, Fedor had immense combat skills and coolness under fire that enabled him to beat men much bigger and stronger than him, men who could strike better than him, and men who were better at BJJ than him. For almost a decade. He took his lumps and did it the hard way, and was always aggressive, dynamic and entertaining in the process. He didn't smother, spoil, or lay and pray...he went in there to finish the other guy.

Yes, there are amazing fighters that can do special things like Ali coming back after a 3.5 year ban and beating the best with a new style. Just because a fighter can't adapt like that doesn't mean he's not great.

Some fighters like Archie Moore and Bernard Hopkins have had remarkable victories into their 40s.

This content is protected

Ali was never the best in the world after he'd beaten Frazier in Manilla and turned 34. Does that mean that Ali wasn't as great as Moore or Hopkins?

No. Different great champions have different strengths. And as far as MMA goes, there is no other champion who has had the incredible, long, undefeated run that Fedor had, including against who many people consider are the #2 and #3 heavyweights of all time and many former UFC champions. That guarantees his place as a MMA immortal.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY[/ame]

 

:good

I don't claim to be an expert either. :yep

That's exactly why he is considered the GOAT.

Fedor is the GOAT, isn't he? He's in a class of his own as well, isn't he? :huh

Exactly. And who seriously considers Jones to be in the discussion for greatest ever? Like Fedor, he took his talent for granted. He fought soft touches for years, and then he lost that extra bit of speed + power combination that he had but nobody else did, and when that left him, all of a sudden he was DONE.

If Jones had retired immediately after beating Ruiz, he would be in the discussion for GOAT. And he would have been a STRONG contender if he had done that and hadn't also pissed away his prime fighting mostly no-hopers.

That's true enough that I won't argue it, except to say that he fought his share of cans as well. And physically he was the superior of pretty much all his opponents, because of his blend of speed, power, accuracy and recuperative ability.

No-one can say that he isn't ONE of the greats.

Where were these combat skills the last three fights? At the time in his career when he should have leaned on his technique and fighting intelligence MORE, as other ATGs did, instead his skills DEVOLVED. Against Henderson he was nothing more than a crude, sloppy brawler, and he was not much better against Werdum. Both times his lack of ANY technique or fighting intelligence meant that he was stopped in a fight he should have won.

Great, unfortunately being exciting doesn't make you the GOAT. If Fedor had been calm and patient and beaten Hendo in boring fashion, that would have done more for his legacy than the wild, exciting, sloppy punching that he displayed before he was TKOd.

Shouldn't the #1 GOAT be able to adapt a little bit? Just a little bit? Fedor didn't adapt AT ALL. That's the main reason he lost. Second reason he lost appeared to be that he didn't give enough of a **** to really put himself out there. Physical decline is way down the list.

Difference is that Ali was physically highly eroded when he was racking up the bad losses. Fedor isn't. :good

I'm certainly not saying he's not the top tier of MMA greats. That would be ridiculous.

But the clear #1 of all time?

The last 3 fights have really put a hurting on that title.

:hat

 

Here's another way to look at it.

Anderson Silva was older when he met Sonnen than Fedor is now.

Silva was DOMINATED by Sonnen for 4 1/2 rounds. Then he came back to win the fight in dramatic fashion, just when it seemed like he was doomed to suffer a stunning defeat.

Now, if Sonnen had managed the win, then opinion would have split into 3 camps.

1) Anderson is 35! He's been a great champion for years but now he's past it! This result is completely irrelevant in his career! (The Fedor opinion)

2) Anderson's ribs were injured coming into the fight! Sonnen was roided up! Anderson is still the better fighter, this was a fluke result, the outcome of the fight means nothing!

3) Anderson, though a gold-plated ATG, was overrated to begin with and Sonnen exposed him as being overrated!


That would have been the three main types of opinion. Shot, fluke result, or exposed.

But what happened was, none of these outcomes occured. Even though Anderson WAS starting to get up there in age, and his ribs WERE injured, and his opponent WAS on steroids, Anderson found a way to get the win anyway. Fedor didn't.

A Silva with injured ribs found a way to submit his younger, stronger opponent after being dominated for four straight rounds.

Fedor was TKOed by a smaller, lighter, older opponent, and didn't even seem interested in fighting for more than one round, win, lose or draw.

And Fedor didn't lose a one-off fight either. He was stopped in three fights in a row. Against Henderson in particular, that is VERY damaging. Henderson, though an ATG himself, was still a 40 year old natural middleweight. The GOAT shouldn't be losing these fights unless he is physically shot. Fedor isn't physically shot, he lost vs Werdum and Hendo because his technique was ****, not because he couldn't pull the trigger anymore. :bart

It gives me the shits that Fedor's wins are endlessly hyped up and made the stuff of legend, but his losses are deemed utterly irrelevant to his career.

:hat

 

You still on this Haggis? Same **** different day.

 

Hey, he responded to me, so I replied to him. :conf

And I'm STILL waiting to hear why exactly 3 consecutive STOPPAGE losses, 2 of them completely avoidable, all of them before the age of 35, means nothing at all when looking at a fighter's overall career.

But there are 3 ways to judge a fighter's powers.

1) How tough he was on his best night. Flawed because ALL great fighters look damned close to invincible on their best night.

2) How tough he was during the span of his career when he looked the best. Flawed because as soon as a guy loses, it doesn't matter because we'll only look at the parts of his career where he did well. We'll only see what he was on his best nights, not on his worst nights.

3) How tough was he during his career as a whole. And this is the magic one. How did he adapt as time went on?

Some fighters destroy everyone for a year or two, or three, and then they get lazy, and one trainer or opponent figures out their style and shows everyone the blueprint to beat them, and they are never the same again. Tyson could be considered one of these.

Some fighters look great, get overconfident, lose and then give themselves an honest self-appraisal, address their flaws and work with them, and come back even BETTER than they were before. Lennox and Wlad being two great examples. Ali is another. These are the greatest fighters.

And some fighters are just naturally so talented that nobody can touch them until they lose the edge that their physical ability gave them. Then as soon as they lose that, they lose everything. Because it was their body that won them the fights, not their mind. RJJ is the obvious case.

:hat

 

There's been plenty of discussion about it, and that's about the 20th post saying exactly the same thing. You just want to procrastinate on this issue and ignore the rest of the posts in this thread who saw it for what it is, a fanboy excuse that has no basis in reality. Go re-read the rest of the post, everyone else saw it for what it is, so I dont see how your point. If they aint going to get it, they never will. So it's pointless

The irony is, you are criticising the 3 posters in this thread for being obsessed with Fedor, but Ive yet to see you make 1 post about UFC 133 or any other issues that have been brought up since Herb stopped the Fedor fight

 

I'd say Fedor still has about 20 fights left in him myself!

It's clear to see that Dana told Herb to stop it via an earpiece. Fedor was not even hurt was he Monaro. You can tell by the way he leaps to his feet after the stoppage as Hendo limps off who was the real winner!

FEDOR, KOD, 1!!!!

First off left's get him and easy fight with someone like Butterbean and then we'll work up to Alex Reid and finally he can go out on a high with a Euro showdown against Mariusz Pudzianowski arty

Lynchburg