Foreman V Frazier: Can you really say he George had joes Number

You just stated that every version of Frazier gets stopped by Foreman

 

What's the point of all this then? Are we asking if Joe FRazier, every once in a great, great while, in maybe twenty fights with George, might occasionally win one? Is that the question?

I don't think it's a matter of Foreman "having his number" and all that...I don't think Foreman was a thinking fighter in those days. I think it's just a matter of two men with aggressive styles coming and meeting at ring center, but one of them being substantially bigger and much physically stronger. Frazier was probably more skilled than George, but he just couldn't match his physical strength. That's about the size of it, folks.

 

there could be no argument made. george proved he could take Joe's punch in both fights. and joe would fight the same every time.

 

hard to say. George was strong and could hit him, and that meant he would knock him out. When a guy has a another guy's number it is usually when one guy is great and the other not great and he beats the great easier than he should. Like Barkley with Hearns. And Ali had trouble with Norton when you would think he would have outclassed him everytime.

 

I used to think foreman was all wrong for Frazier until I saw foreman vs ted gullick -the last real fight foreman was in only a few months before the title fight.

If you watch the gullick fight you will see how open and raw george still was. he was lucky Frazier was not producing the form and timing he had shown before TFOTC.

George was still not quite ready but his people watched the stander fight and decided to take their chance. Frazier had lost the extra second of timing. No way would they have let him near the Frazier of the Foster, ellis and quarry fights.

 

Stander was able to make Joe give ground and apply movement. Earlier, Chuvalo was also able to stand his ground and make Frazier move. Bonavena was also stronger than Frazier. Jerry Quarry wasn't weak, and Cummings wasn't able to use his weight trained physical strength to dominate Smoke. But Foreman was more of a physical freak than all of them put together.

Could 1969 -1971 Frazier have beaten Foreman? It would have been difficult in a first time match, especially if the three knockdown rule was in effect. But way past his best, and nearly 25 pounds above his peak weight, Joe survived for nearly five rounds in their 1976 return, and adapted surprisingly well with similar movement to what he used against Stander and Chuvalo. Put late 1969-early 1970 Frazier in a rematch with Foreman, weighing close to a much more mobile 200 pounds, and he might well stay away and last long enough to drown the big guy in deep water before the championship distance expired. If Ali could drop George in eight, then I'm sure Smoke had the late round power to do it after 12. I also think if he was to beat Foreman, it would have to be by knockout.

In their Nassau Coliseum rematch, Joe had his best round in the fourth, but it was only even. It didn't look as though Frazier had a chance to win on points with the jab and controlled aggression Foreman had, and Smoke was likely to already need a knockout to win before the bout had gone much beyond the halfway mark. Something overlooked though in that rematch is that Joe lasted longer than everybody else George stopped in his first career besides Scrap Iron (who was halted on cuts in seven) and Peralta II (a dubious stoppage). Frazier was utterly spent after Manila, yet may have been within two rounds of turning the corner in Uniondale.

Assume Ali had never returned from exile. Joe wouldn't have had the debilitation of the FOTC behind him when Foreman challenged for the title. Frazier might still have gotten quickly wiped out by George as he was in Kingston, but he'd remain fully intact as Patterson was after Ingo I, and might well adapt to turn the tables as Floyd did in 1960. Joe had virtually nothing left after Manila, yet lasted late into the fifth round against who many consider the best version of Foreman to compete in the 1970s. Maybe, just maybe, he adapts in an early 1970s title rematch to drown the big man in deep water.

 

i don't know, i think any 70s version of foreman that's allowed to push frazier at will ends of creating the distance needed to bomb away

 

As Frazier's no.1 fanboy, after watching their fights i can depressingly admit that Foreman had that ****ing number on lockdown

 

Foreman always beats Frazier, Liston always beats Patterson and Hearns always beats Duran. Get over it.

 

Ah, forget it. Foreman dropped Frazier six times in two rounds in their first, and brutally knocked him out in their second fight.

No Frazier would beat Foreman.

 

It would have been interesting to watch peak Frazier meet foreman with that timed hook that could catch ali at all ranges. without losing power Joe could shorten it, double it and launch that hook like it had radar. Peak Frazier was pin point. It was a hard punch to anticipate. George caught every punch in the book from gullick who lacked power. That second or so Frazier lost after TFOTC was crucial. It was the difference between being a top 4 ATG and not. Frazier more than anyone else was closest to emulating Marciano's level of dominance. By TFOTC he had genuinely cleaned out. Pity the ol’ smoker missed former champs Patterson and Liston out though.

 

Frazier and norton always lose to foreman, of course one in 5 could be an upset but the majority would be early destructions.