Is Vitali the greatest ever Hw 40 year old?

I think Vitali might be the Greatest 40 Year old ever.

Fitz by this time was finished with his loss to lang and Johnson with only the first O Brien win and the Gardner win which was really a light heavyweight fight.

JOhnson is the biggest challenge. He had wins over Roper, Lawler and SMith at this age, but had really wound down a bit and was not beating top 5 contenders, nor would you expect him to (though he might).

Willard might be a surprising choice, with the Floyd Johnson win, but he was quickly beaten by Firpo, who wasnt up with Adameks standing at thsi time.

Langford's wins over Flynn and others was decent but he was losing to Bearcat Wright, who is probably no better than Adamek in standing of his time.

Foreman is a good shot, and he did beat Moorer, but lets be honest, he wasnt a pinch on what he used to be (yeah i know he learned to pace himself), and he also was never really one of the clear top 2 like Vitali is. There was the likes of Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe, who were all on par or better than Foreman at this age. You cant say that about Vitali.

Holmes. Holmes had the good Mercer win, but he had been outclassed by Tyson, who was still fighting, had lost pretty clearly to Holyfield, and would have been a rank underdog against Bowe and Lewis at any stage. I dont think he is where Vitali is.

Holyfield has the impressive win over Rahman, but he is about to lose to Byrd, Toney and Donald, and had already struggled with Ruiz and lost to Lewis. He was not at the same level as Vitali is now.

Archie Moore, great as he was, had just lost to Patterson, and not long before Marciano. He was still a good fighter but was not beating the top 2 or 3 fighters in the world.


I think that with this win, Vitali has become the greatest 40 year old ever. I honestly cant think of another 40 year old (unless i have missed someone obvious) who can compete as close to his prime years of performance, and at such a high level. Of Course, it might say something about the worrying drop in standards of modern fighting, particularly when he is not alone with the likes of Holyfield, Hopkins, even McCall and others able to compete reasonably still, but if i am going to be consistents and rate eras equally, like i do with turn of the century fighters, then i really cant see any argument as to a better fighter over the age of 40.

 

in accomplishments no..but in head to head fights...dont see too many guys at 40 beating him... 40 year old foreman vs this vitali..i gotta go vitali.

 

If we could gather up through history all the best senior tour 40+yo boxers - Old Foreman, Old Holmes, Archie Moore, Jack Johnson, 40yo Oldyfield.......I think he'd probably win a tournament, he's very well conditioned for a 40yo unlike Holmes/Foreman, although Old Holmes, may just beat 40yo Vitali.

Ofcourse a 38yo Lewis kicks his ass :yep

Without taking anything away from him and Lewis, it's easier to fight as an old man when you have height and reach advantages

 

Finding a heavyweight over the age of 40 who could beat him would be no easy task.

I can't personaly think of one.

Perhaps Lewis could have done it, if he had decided to stay on for another two years.

 

when watching the fight last night with the wife, she asked why he keeps his hands down and he looks kind of ugly when he fights. then she made a joke about him slapping his thigh like old timey fighters...

it's strange but vitali's style, punch output, "flaws" VERY closely resemble the jim driscoll footage i tore apart last week. (PP i just saw made a similar comment about another one of the old films on that thread)

just thought it was interesting, vitali's dominance using handlebag mustache era techniques

 

Good question. At the moment he has to be below foreman tho.

Foreman knocked out moorer who was number 1. However foreman didn't maintain his number 1 position very long being usurped by bowe (had a very underrated 1995 imo) and then when bowe was getting battered by golota, foreman was still on his obscure tour whilst tyson was demolishing top 5 hw's himself.

In my opinion vitali is about to overtake wlad and if his next two fights are against haye and pov then i'd class vitali the greatest senior hw in history.

 

I always find it a little strange that people either rate both the Klitashko brothers or neither of them.

Personaly I can see a lot of clear water between Wladamir's resume and Vitallys. Wladamir simply has far more high quality wins.

 

I completely agree with you. I'm talking more in terms of the present.

Since vitali's comeback the onus has been upon him to either beat wlad or fight better opponents than wlad if he wishes to be regarded as the premiere hw.

Since the comeback here's how I see a resume comparison

Vitali-wlad

Peter-iggy
Adamek-haye
Arreola-chambers
Gomez-thompson
Briggs-rahman
Solis-peter

All those are comparable with chag giving wlad a clear edge.

If wlad fights mormeck next and vitali fights haye, the post comeback resume's even up for me.

If wlad then fights fury and vitali fights pov I think vitali will pull ahead and usurp wlad's position as top dog.

Now ofcourse wlad still has his 6 year rule of the division and will almost definitely go down as the greater brother. That's not say it's beyond reason that in a year's time events happen that lead to a consensus they that vitali is the best hw in the world.

So i'm talking from a strictly present post comeback comparison.

 

Are you kidding me?

Iggy is clearly better than Peter

Chambers is way ahead of Arreola

Chagaev is way ahead of anything vitali beat

Thompson is ahead of gomez

Haye is ahead of Adamek

Peter is way ahead of Solis

Wlad has the much better resume

 

While these lists superficialy look similar, the ranking of the fighters when Wlad fought them makes his wins significantly better. Wlad has rounded up the beltholders, and prety consistently fought ranked contenders or mandatories. Wlads record has a lot more meat on iot by my calculations.

To make matters worse, Wlad has time on his side.

 

Clearly better? Iggy never entered the top two of the division. His claim to fame is a shot briggs and a shot holyfield. Peter was fat and out of shape. There's no clearly anything there.

At the time of the fight the two were both considered about equal in terms of american prospects. Chambers has pulled away but I wouldn't say way ahead.

Chag is way ahead but had you read my post you'd see that.

Thompson and gomez are equal.

Haye and adamek are about equal.

Peter was completely shot and solis was a prospect likely to improve with time (like chambers has with wlad)

Yes wlad has a better resume, again had you read the post you'd see I said that.

My point is if vitali destroys haye and pov and wlad doesn't face anyone credible in his next two fights, then vitality arguably has a better post 08 resume. Denying it would be arguable is incredibly naive imo.

 

It has much more meat, I agree. As it stands wlad is greater in every category imo.

My point is I expect vitali to fight haye and pov next whilst wlad fights mormeck and fury.

If that happens the quality of resume post 08 could lean towards vitali and could lead to people viewing vitali as number 1 ahead of wlad.

 

There are four big assumptions there.

 

They are indeed. Call it a hunch. I think right now it's still clear who the better and greater of the brother's is.

If my hunch plays out the line gets much more blurry imo.