Who was the greater physical phenomen in his respective prime? Tyson or Ali?

Again the same problem of people combining qualities of pre-exile and post-exile Ali. Pre-exile Ali had the first 3 qualities, but lacked the other 2. Post-exile Ali lacked the first 3, but had the other 2. At no point of his career did Ali combine all 5 together.

 

What did post-exile Ali have that pre-exile Ali didn't ?

 

Ali beats Tyson every day of the week. Ali had everything he could box, run or fight. He could also punch hard enough to deter all but the madmen like Frazier and Norton. Add that to one of the greatest chins of all time and its no surprise that he was known as the Greatest. 16 years of world title fights and he never once finished on his ass.

Tyson on the other hand was fast and punched hard but there was no plan B and when he got hit he tended to stay hit. Mike was never in Muhammad's league.

 

Realistically, Tyson might come out and surprise and trouble Ali for a few rounds with left hooks and body shots, but after 5 or 6 rounds Ali would have his number and pepper him with jabs and rights and break Tyson down and shut him out of the fight.

Most likely, Ali would take this fight as serious as he took Liston and he'd avoid any real trouble and shut Tyson out the entire fight, bust him up bad and stop him.

 

Oh c'mon, this Tyson fluffing is ridiculous. Ali would have Tyson beat *mentally* before the first bell rang. Y'all are still dreaming of Tyson making Michael Spinks poop his pants with fear, you should be remembering Tyson so scared of taking another ass-whipping he bit off a man's ear to get disqualified.

 

I remember that.
I also remember Tyson get whipped by a fairly average jab-and-move contender called Buster Douglas.
And Ali could do all that 10 times better !

Still, if Ali was to take Tyson lightly I could imagine Tyson's style could score with hooks and body shots that Ali was a little prone to.

I agree though, Ali was slap him silly, box his ears off, and stop him inside the distance. I can imagine Tyson shedding tears out of frustration as Ali peppers him mid-ring.

 

I would definitely say Ali, as mentioned above, the concept of a muhammad ali really seems hard to even think of until you see him. Tyson on the other hand is much more easy to conceptualize. What I think makes Ali most interesting is that with his unbeleivable footspeed, handspeed, and reflexes, he had a huge amount of physical strength. Most fighters of his type aren't known for their physical strength like Leonard, Robinson, Jones, etc.

 

It's a toss up really. It was only during Ali's fight with Cooper that he had to call on his will to win. Ali's will to win only became evident in the 70's. He had too many gifts for fighters he faced in the 60's.

I take that back, I never saw the Doug Jones fight. He may have needed his will to win that disputed decision.

Mike Tyson normally lost because he never showed a great will to win. Even when he was fighting a bad fight, his athletic ability normally pulled it out for him. He was not looking particularly well against Botha, but that sledge hammer straight had no problem sealing the deal.

 

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, pre exile Ali didn't need nor have the right opportunity thru neccessity to show the strength? Post exile Ali was pretty much the same size and he sure hadn't been doing any strength training to gain this sudden magical strength. You are also wrong on the stamina front, pre exile Ali had excellent stamina and any sensible comparison will realise dancing and moving loads more as opposed to flat footed will sap more energy. As if Ali is suddenly going to acquire significantly more stamina when older and starting to decline.

I'll grant you speed and reflex but the rest was BS.

 

I agree also, ALi would have done a job on Tyson before the fight (let alone in the fight). Ali feared no one , and any Tyson fan would have to admit Mike was vulnerable mentally. ALi never backed down even when he may have been on the short end of a fight, he had character up the kazoo, (whatever a kazoo is)

realized i didn't answer the original question, ALi

 

Tyson was quicker and had more explosive power and natural reflexes, superior timing also.

Tyson.

 

Stamina is something more than just moving around and throwing punches for 15 rounds. It's about durability also, to stand under a lot of pressure, which shows the stamina. To draw an analogy with running, it's not that hard to run several miles with minimal training, but try running just 1 mile of cross-country running, that's completely different.
Controlling Liston in the clinches? What you saying, you calling that holding that Ali always used an example of strength? Try something else, it doesn't require much strength to clinch.

Extremely quick post-exile Ali? For a few seconds per fight, maybe yes, he woke up and threw those pitty-pat flurries, some people are so impressed with. When you don't care about accuracy at all, some other heavyweights could do that in training with speed-bag, didn't look any slower than Ali.