How bad was Joe Louis's opposition ?

I'm honestly not sure how anybody could claim Louis opposition was top calibur, when being neutral to the subject. It really wasn't an impressive list of foes. The great fighters he did face.. he either lost, got gifted a dec., or was losing before winning. Having said that, it's also not his fault that during his prime prime there weren't any all time greats for him to fight. Not his fault. The skills you can clearly see and his dominate run.. make hiim one of the best HW of all time. However, to say his opposition was impressive during his title run is a tad bit of a stretch imo.

 

In Louis' defense it can be mentioned that he did stop 1 very good cruiser / big lightheavy and that was Arnold Cream , but if some1 is going 2 say that Louis was past prime then , then Cream was Louis' age (maybe even 1 year older ?) , and even started fighting at a younger age , and then he was even more damaged by d time they fought because he had less size 2 keep opponents off of himself , and most will also argue that less of a punch as well , also Louis didn't lose 2 Ezzard Charles . I watched that disgusting fight , and was far from impressed with either man , but this time Louis was surely past his prime and did fight a younger man .
Which all in all make Louis quite a 1 trick pony , with actually d same amount of decision losses as written in his record , with 1 win swapped with a loss , and 1 loss swapped with a draw .
Another implication of d above , is that Marchegiano won d "lineal" championship that is important 2 some from Louis , when he stopped him back in 1951 , which makes Marchegiano's lineal reign longer than what ppl used 2 think , but then , d same some who care about lineality in this sport don't care about d truth and won't recognize this change of d guard as it was .

 

The thinhg is this.

Even if you don't rate the era, there is no getting round:

A. The fact that his opponents were the elite of the era.

B. The sheer volume of elite fighters he beat.

C. The improbable period that he beat the top fighters over.

That rather forces two questions:

A. Exactly how weak can all the champions and top contenders over a 15 year period be?

B. Can you identify any other 15 year period in the history of gloved boxing where there was not some serious talent.

 

Mendoza you pick up one report and smear Louis...now fact is Ray got knocked out by a old LOuis...he looked so bad that his own manager asked Ray to quit. May be you choose to ignore also that Ray who could never go easy was easily dominated in all the exhibitions he fought with Louis even getting Knocked cold by Louis in one...a guy who could not stand up in exhibitions to LOuis was the same guy Louis was ducking...Louis actually rated Ray the 6th best of his opponents. Rating Charles or Walcott ahead of him. Looking into what those guys achieved in reality in their boxing careers, I think Louis had 100% correct perspective. Charles and Walcott became champs, RAy sank into oblivion.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=6040,4326873&dq=joe+louis+elmer+ray&hl=en
The above says Walcott challenges Louis after his easy win against Ray. No doubt Joe should have faced the loser who was bested.



"LOUIS BATTERS RAY IN EXHIBITION BOUT; Rival Helpless in Third Round as Heavyweight Champion Connects With Right" -- Ny TIMES

There are other newspaper reports too, not to mention that , Louis KO'd ray in the next match...yea it looks like he would have given trouble. He could not trouble an ancient Louis though.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AJ&pg=5093,49385&dq=joe+louis+elmer+ray&hl=en

Report of the 1st Walcott- Ray match, saying Louis will not be the least worried. Ray's performance was dismal. He got beat easily in the return as expected though.


http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=4401,2400418&dq=joe+louis+elmer+ray&hl=en
The above is an old article ridiculing Elmer and his managers for alleging that Louis ducked him. Also might fit you, Mendoza.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...&pg=6481,1540373&dq=joe+louis+elmer+ray&hl=en

IN the baove Ray claims he will go after Louis, at 194 rounds, having beaten Walcoot two years ago.
By the by, before the third fight with Louis, elmer's manager was complaining that they were using too big gloves (16 , i think), and this might prevent any KO's...but looks like even that was not big enough for Elmer's chin..He was knocked out cold...and his manager asked him to quit.
"Palatka, Fla., March 28.--(AP.) --Heavyweight Elmer (Violent) Ray, Negro fighter suffering a slight brain concussion following an exhibition with Joe Louis, said today he was quitting the ring "while I still got my health."'
My , my, so a brain concussion from those gloves which your manager thought was too big, the same manager who hyped that Louis will find more respect for Ray (over Charles and Savold) after the exhibitions.
.Mendoza, you have been owned time and again, why continue thi stuff? You look worse than Ray's manager in your claims.

 

It doesn't say that at all in the article. You just pulled that out of your ass.

In other words, something written years later from a source not associated with the events in question, correct?

 

And what basis do you have for this claim?

Yes, I'd very much like to know as well. :yep

 

:rofl

 

It doubles as his mouth.:good

 

Its based on all the footage he has of Ray,footage that only a personal friend of respected Boxing Historians has access to.:deal

 

Jefferson couldn't even "kill" a useless punching bag like David Izon.

What's he supposed to do against an opponent who can actually BOX?

Maskaev was destroyed by every halfway decent fighter who wasn't Rahman.

Surely that just reinforces how mediocre he was.

 

We certainly know the answer, because Joey Maxim had already beaten Walcott three months prior to Ray's win over the same fighter, and yet strangely, no one here has made even the slightest effort to argue that Maxim was "ducked," or that he was "forced" to fight a rematch with Walcott. Blatant double standard.

 

Aside from that, Franklin had already been embarrassed by Pastor a day or two before Louis signed to fight Simon.

While this meant that both fighters had lost their previous fights, Simon had at least earned another shot at Louis by giving him a tough, exciting fight the first time - basically the same way Jim Corbett had earned a title rematch with Jim Jeffries. However, Franklin had no such argument for getting a shot at that point.

 

I THOUGHT this thread was about the actual opponents of Louis.
Not sure WHAT IS the relevance is concerning a non-fight with ELMER RAY.

You can take any champion and try to minimize their ability by throwing a
non-fight into the mix. If there was no title fight, then there is nothing to
compare but pure fantasy. But, fantasy and fiction are not the yardsticks
to measure the excellence of any boxer let alone a long term champion
with the number one title winning streak. JOE LOUIS had that style and
ability to track down his opponents measure them and unload serious
hurt. And, his few losses, do not diminish his overall standing as one of
the all time great heavyweights. if Ali tried to do the rope-a-dope on a
Joe Louis he would be in for some serious pain.

 

Thank you.

 

Knock him out ? like Mo Harris ?

U mean by every other ATG or halfway ATG heavy ?
or by big men even 4 d post 1980s standrads ?

Jeff Wooden took David Tua & Michael Grant d distance ,
Robert Hawkins took Tua , Peters and a few more d distance .
Maskaev was simply matched in a very brave way .