A little advice for me on my Greb book

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by klompton, Oct 13, 2011.


  1. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    There are at least two or three fights of Greb's that were absolutely filmed, and a few more that were rumored to have been filmed although Im not convinced.

    The amount of fights that were filmed that havent survived is pretty amazing, and sad at the same time. The Fulton-Weinert bout and every fight on the undercard was filmed. This would be fascinating footage. This would be the only footage of Fulton and the only footage of Weinert (until we find the Greb-Walker film which also featured Weinert getting KOd by Wills on the undercard), It would be the only footage of Greb opponent Whitey Allen who knocked out Joe Mace on the undercard, and it would be the only winning fight we would have on film of Bill Brennan who knocked out Tex McCarthy on the undercard.
     
  2. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    700+ pages is a Harry Potter book. Bring it on. I'm ready.
     
  3. DaveK

    DaveK Vicious & Malicious Full Member

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    One book is better.

    Anyone interested in that depth of what I'm sure is exhaustive research is capable of reading 700 pages.
     
  4. Cmoyle

    Cmoyle Active Member Full Member

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    "My immediate thought is that it should be one volume similar in size to Adam's book on Jeffries. Every artist passionate about their art has to cut and trim to some degree ... I hope you have a good editor as you have such a vast accumulation of knowledge and are so close to the content it would be wise to have someone helping you cut and trim."

    This is probably not bad advice. My initial Sam Langford book was 160,000 + words. Then I found out that most publishers thought the sweet spot for a biography was between 80,000 - 110,000 so I turned to a friend who was an avid reader and asked him if he'd be willing to read my manuscript and highlight anything that he thought I could cut out. I couldn't bear to cut everything out but I managed to reduce it to 113,000 words. As that, it ended up being 429 pages long.

    There might be a few things I've had some second thoughts about cutting but overall I don't think it really hurt to cut most of what I did.

    I did just purchase a 700+ book about Parson Davies that I plan to read in the near future. I'll be interested to see how I do with it.
     
  5. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not sure what publishers will or won't do anymore. 700 pages is fine with me, but would a publisher shy away from it? Or would they shy away more readily at a two-volume publishing deal? I'm just not sure.

    Do whichever way gets your book out there the most expeditiously. I like one volume, but won't cry if it's two.

    BTW...if you need a proof reader for any reason let me know. Roy tells me I'm pretty good :smoke
     
  6. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    Heres the thing. The goal is to keep as much as possible in. Keep in mind this book has a TON of photos in it as well, which I feel are necessary to illustrate the times, fights, and fighters since, in regards to Greb there is no film on him, and because he fought so many tough guys are really forgotten today. This isnt just a book about Greb but about the guys he fought, the promotions, the times etc. Im a firm believer in the importance of context, and a firm believer that a fighter is defined by the men he fights as such, to leave out too much wouldnt really give a clear picture of why Greb was so great. I cant stand reading a biography and thinking, "that was good BUT it was typical, what about x, y, and z?" When I read a biography I want to feel like the person who wrote it knows the subject inside and out, and answered all my questions or could if need be. When I was in college I worked on the third floor of the library which housed the Grant foundation. This was dedicated to the study of Ulysees S. Grant. The guy who ran it had been there so long that my dad actually worked for him at the foundation when he was in college. This guy, John Y. Simon was his name, knew so much about Grant he could probably tell how often he blew his nose and what color the snot was. When he wrote papers or books on Grant they were definitive. Period. Thats what I want this book to be. I want it to be fun, interesting, and have a decent cross appeal but I also want it to be truly scholarly, and truly definitive.
     
  7. sallywinder

    sallywinder Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    klompton.....ACTIVELY trying to change history.

    700 pages of lies. how can you write a book about old time fighters, when you call most of them LIARS???

    how can you use newspaper reports when you also call them LIARS??

    you can never use jack dempseys quotes as youve called him a liar. gregluland has a list of the greats of the past whom you have called liars. how will that effect your book?? when the author sites his witnesses as liars??

    you are a grub. you have no right to touch history.
     
  8. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    1 book. Cut whatever seems unnecessary so the book has a decent balance of details and flow. A hardcore fan might not mind but an easier read goes a long way. Even biographies can't be too dry and lifeless. Just my 2 cents.
     
  9. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    So it's not just a biography as much as it's a book about the life and times of Greb (And his opponents)?
     
  10. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oh shut the **** up you muppet.
     
  11. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    Thats right. Ive tried to make it flow as naturally as possible but theres a lot of information and context in it.

    I'll be the first to admit Im no writer but put it this way, when Im reading it to edit I forget Im editing and just get lost in it, I find it very enjoyable. I think if it didnt have a good flow Id recognize it and probably try to have somebody else condense the research and facts into a better narrative but to me it works great. Im not saying it doesnt need editing because it does, but Ive been very conscious about going over and over and over it again and again in order to smooth out the bumps and make sure its an easy, fun, informative read.
     
  12. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    If you get lost in your own reading that's a good sign that it's well written. I usually hate my own writing, or at least am very critical of it. Since you're focused on that the length shouldn't be a problem whatsoever.
     
  13. sallywinder

    sallywinder Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    well klompton. how do you figure to write something historical, when youve called other authors liars, and many of grebs contempories liars also? you flat out, blatantly called jack dempsey a liar whose word cant be believed. so dare you print any quote of his?
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Hush pet.
     
  15. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Did he say that Dempsey was outright a liar? Or did he just say that Dempsey may have been reiterating what he had heard on an event he did not actually witness some 30 years later.

    Anyway, I don't think klompton's research is based on Dempsey's opinion.