Jack Johnson vs. Jeffries in 1905

I have no doubt Johnson deserved a decision. I simply question how a supposed all time great in his physical prime in his most important career fight does not decisively dominate a game but ultimately average heavyweight. It's like the Holmes of the Norton fight struggling with Tex Cobb . MY only explanation is two fold : On on hand JOhnson was an extremely defiant guy ... he fought his way and that was that .. he was not a balls to the wall type fighter ... he was more like a Hopkins who economized and picked his shots and while he deserved a decision he was robbed ... on another maybe the analogy is Hagler-Vito 1 where he simply fought more cautiously than he should have and just got a raw deal .. maybe a rematch would have been a mismatch .. interesting how I never read Johnson never having any interest in avenging the loss ...

 

I'm sticking with my opinion that prime for prime johnson is better than jeffries. I think 05 would have seen this as a reality.

Regarding comments on resume, jeffries has a good resume but johnson has a great resume imo.

In jackson, sharkey, corbett and fitz he essentially cleaned out the old guard. However victories against hart, johnson or any of the other leading contenders would have certainly enhanced his resume significantly.

I personally think in the grand heavyweight scheme jeffries resume doesn't really compare too well but when someone has as few fights as he had, to even be go comparison is a great accomplishment indeed!

 

I also fail to understand why these two men divide so many. Can't people just appreciate both talents?

On this forum certainly, they are arguably the most divisive boxers and i'm not sure why.

People don't argue like this over ali and holmes...

 

The irony is that they are nearly as devisive today as they were in 1910!

We have come close to actualy having a physical fight over the issue (see previous threads). Nobody has been lynched yet!

Like you, I would like to see people appreciate both talents. Unfortunately, the battle lines seem to be drawn along the same general lines as in 1910, even if the predudice is not the same!

 

I sometimes wonder if we have direct descendants of the two on here trying to secure family honour!

With hindsight what transpired has been perfect for the two because johnson pretty much secured his legacy against jeffries in 1910 and no matter how much some people belittle the victory, it's historic significance is forever to be remembered. As an added bonus it was far enough removed from james's prime that it doesn't detract from his legacy at all.

 

Yeah, it's funny the divisiveness they cause. I think they are both shitty.

 

You mean that race riots were conducted over two sh1tty fighters?

These people only had to wait 70 years for the first genuinely good heavyweight to emerge?

 

I can not say definitively who would have won if both men had fought each other in their primes. I lean towards Jefferies, because of his size, stregngth and athleticism.

I will say -

1) If they had met while they were both in their primes it could have been the greatest fight ever, and

2) I would not like to have either Johnson or Jefferies made at me.:yikes

 

According to Geoffrey C Ward, Johnson asked for a rematch, and Hart refused him.

 

Those race riots weren't caused by shitty fighters. Shitty fighters were only a random catalyst. And yes, it took about 70 years for decent heavies to develop, but so did it for reasonably agile, fast track race cars.

 

CORRECTION.
WE CAME CLOSE TO A PHYSICAL FIGHT BECAUSE MENDOZA CHALLENGED ME TO ONE IN APRIL 2010 , WHEN HE WAS COMING TO THE UK.HE STATED "we both know you won't accept it",THAT WAS HIS MISTAKE.
I IMMEDIATELY ACCEPTED, IN MARCH, I PMD HIM 3 TIMES, HE DID NOT REPLY. I THEN PUT AN OPEN THREAD UP WITH HIS NAME PROMINENTLY IN THAT THREAD, ASKING WHEN HE WOULD BE ARRIVING AND,AT WHAT TERMINAL? HE IGNORED IT,THE TIME SCALE CAN EASILY BE VERIFIED AND THE FACT THAT MENDOZA WAS STILL IN THE US, BECAUSE HE POSTED ON HERE SHORTLY AFTER . THE HOSTILITY HAD ZERO TO DO WITH HIM FAVOURING JEFFRIES ,AND I FAVOURING JOHNSON, AT LEAST AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED. IF IT DID ,I WOULD HAVE TO FIGHT HALF THE FORUM ! I DON'T GIVE **** WHO FAVOURS WHO,
BUT IF YOU CHALLENGE ME TO A FIGHT, BET YOUR BOLLOCKS I WILL TURN UP FOR IT. END OF RANT.
Apologies for the caps J ,but I don't want anything misconstrued here.

 

I assumed that Mendoza's challenge could only stemn from the acrimony surrounding your debates about Jeffries/Johnson. Ultimately Mendoza seems to have taken inspiration from his idol, and decided that the fight would not be good for public order.

 

Holmes of the Norton fight did struggle a bit against Norton though, maybe Hart is better than given credit for. Lots of fighters struggle in their prime, Jeffries himself was outboxed for many rounds by a Corbett who hadn't won in 6years. It always baffles me that JEffries seems to get a ton of credit for beating a past prime Corbett, yet Johnson gets little credit for dominating a past prime Jeffries.