American Elite Level

Americans see their country as the greatest place on Earth. It's why a very small number of their population have passports. Compare this to the rest of the world and it is easy to understand that America, as a nation, is very insular. I believe that this spills over into most walks of life, boxing being just one example. People can come from the outside to fight in America and that seems to be ok. But boxers who fight outside of the US do not get that much exposure on the TV networks. Don't forget that Americans are pretty much the fattest nation on Earth also so sit in front of the TV a lot with twinkies, hot dogs, potato chips & cola then got out for some food after the boxing. American TV is rarely interested in people like Calzaghe because he has refused to fight in the USA until now. Hell, the only reason he is known is because he badly beat up one of the 10% of the population with a passport: Jeff Lacy. To add insult to injury, this was on American TV.

I believe this is a debate that has a number of key points, but those outlined above, are some of the major ones when it comes to Americans.

 

Real boxing fans know the deal.

Carlos Monzon rarely ever fought in the States and he's a legend.

The same goes for Eder Jofre.

 

20 years ago american boxing was in a very healthy state.

if an elite fighter fell off another one quickly replaced him.

heavyweights dominated the american scene for a 100 years as well.

currently in a mini slump but still with some talented boxers, biggest problem i see is the strength in depth.

american seond tier used to be very very good with strength in every division feather to heavy .

america now really does not have a second tier.

it has an elite
a 1st tier and then journeymen, with very very little coming through.

that is why the rest of the world has caught up and in some divisions surpassed.

american tv needs restructering otherwise in as little as 3 to 4 years when the current crop
holyfield/toney/mosely/dlh/jones/mayweather/hopkins/wright/
will definatly be retired what and who is going to fill the gap.

 

I am American, and many of my FAVORITE fighters have NOT been American.

It's a matter of this: Europe doesn't have greater athletes than the USA, but to PROVE yourself at soccer, you go to Europe. You play in the Premier League, not the MLS.

If you want to prove yourself at Golf, you go to the PGA Tour. If you want to prove yourself at tennis, you play the major tournaments. If you want to prove yourself in baseball, the USA is the place to be. If you want to prove yourself at basketball, it's the NBA.

Here's the point: Most of the big fights nowadays are fought in the USA, and they have been for a long time. Madison Square Garden, Atlantic City, and Las Vegas have hosted many of the biggest fights of all-time. To gain the exposure, the USA is the Mecca of fighting. I think everyone would agree with that. You can't name any European arenas that have held bigger fights than places in Atlantic City, MSG, or Las Vegas. That's the point, and that's unbiased.

In the meantime, when you look at Calzaghe's record between the Eubank and Lacy fight, who's on there? NOBODY. Those were 9 of his prime years that he spent toying around with bums and defending a garbage WBO Super Middleweight title. He didn't seek out the biggest fights, the biggest names, or the most competitive divisions. That's my gripe with JC. I have nothing against him or his boxing ability. I think he made an effort to pad his record, rack up his title defenses, and hang out on his home turf (or close to it) to make money. That's fine with me, but let's not call him something he's not.

Hopkins jumped 2 divisions to beat Tarver. Hopkins beat Trinidad when he was the underdog. With all that, Hopkins still made his 20 Middleweight title defenses.

RJJ won titles from 160-Heavyweight, enough said!

JC's resume just doesn't stack up. It's not me backing Americans. Morales and Barrera went after the BIGGEST challenges they could find. Calzaghe did not.

 

The United States is better than any other country in the world. There is no arguement. Only 10% of Americans have passports because we don't need to leave the country. We have it all right here. People from other countries need passports because they want to come to the United States.

 

It's time for all of us Americans, especially boxers, realize that it's a big world we live in. I do not have the statistics but it seems other than the big name fighters like PBH, DLH, etc., boxing is at best a second tier sport in the US. Europe & Russia seem to be on a big upswing and more and more championships are being won by men from there. It should be in the interest of big name US fighters to get overseas more often to prove their abilities against those who are, in increasing numbers, some the best fighters in the world. Likewise, I would like to see more international fights on US soil.

 

Interesting points, I personally believe that socioeconomic factors play a huge part in where the best boxers originate from. A lot of boxers have used boxing as a way to make a living and when easier options become available we can't blame the general public for picking those. In America it might be a worthy argument to suggest that a lot of potential boxing talent now ends up in other sports. On the other hand, following the disintigration of the Soviet Union, poverty proliferated and boxing may now seem a viable route of escape. There are more factors obviously, for instance, genetic predisposition for certain heights and weights would obviously change the size of the talent pools for given weights for each nation based on the ratios of different races present.

 

I have been to the States a few times and I have to say, I have yet to meet an American that I didn't like.

I found them to be very amiable and good to talk to.

Yes, they are a little insular, but with a country that size, with every amenity known to man, it is quite understandable.

Some people on here say things purely for effect, some probably are really arrogant and ignorant, but thats the beauty of a forum, its a free for all and it wouldn't work without idiots, nuthuggers, fan boys, insular people, ethnocentrics, haters and so on and so forth.

With regards to boxing, americans are now turning to other sports as there are bigger pay days (NBA, NFL, Baseball). Boxing isn't as glamourous as it once was and has fallen way down the pecking order, the golden days of this sport (world wide) are dwindling because of politics, people getting screwed over, pay per view and the generwal lack of decent coverage in the media.

Boxing shot itself in the foot a long time ago but has yet to do anything about the wounds

 

The reasons for the US dominating the heavyweight division are simple, the Mob refused to allow the belt to leave the country, hence all the fights taking place in the US and other belts being formed such as the WBO. Look at the 'eastern Euros' today, they are dominating, do you really believe they just got good over night? Or was it they couldnt fight as they didnt have the oppertunity because of one reason or another? Anyway....mecca of boxing? Like I said in the past 'yes' because the mob had monolpoly on the belt/s, today? no! When was the last time you ssaw an american boxer draw 50,000+ or take 20,000+ overseas, when Calzaghe has finished with Hopkins, Jones sais he will fight in Wales, if this happens ill be suprised if he brings 1000 with him.

 

It is simply EXPOSURE for us American's. We don't care where you come from, we just want to see what you've got. Calzaghe's fights have not been available for us to see how great he is until now. I too blame all this on Frank Warren, because you can't even find fights of Joe on YouTube.

 

To begin with, the Soviets wouldn't permit their fighters to compete on a pro level with US fighters. Finally, they are allowed to compete and have prospered. What creates elite fighters from a national perspective is dire poverty, desperation and a very large pool of prospective talent, meaning a huge population. That's why America dominated boxing in the past and why former Soviet countries are now dominating the heavyweight division. It should also be noted that much fewer American athletes are going into boxing. Pro basketball and football are a lot more lucrative and less dangerous.