The “What if Ali and Louis weren’t that special?” Tournament

Tony Galento would have never KOd or won vs Lewis .
Even prime vs shot .
Foreman would have knocked all of Louis' , Marchegiano's and Dempsey's asses out (would have done Ali's 2 under normal circumstances) .
True that Louis' era would have been dominated by any1 else , Max Baer was not better than Scott LeDoux and Max Schmelling wasn't better than Duane Bobbick .

 

Brilliant post :good I'll be back with my view tomorrow.

 

Rocky's just too small against an ATG powerful skilled superheavyweight like Lennox Lewis. Lewis would put him at the end of a jab and give him wicked uppercuts everytime Rocky tried to get in close. Rocky was tough as hell and would survive the 12 rounds. Lewis would devise a safety first gameplan against the dangerous Marciano.

Lennox 12 unanimous


Lewis KO 4 Dempsey- Dempsey would charge in and get clocked by uppercuts. Dempsey had a longer reach, faster feet and might land more than Marciano did, but he didn't have the chin that Marciano had. Dempsey would punch himself out pretty quickly trying to put Lennox away while Lennox keeps Dempsey at the end of a jab. Eventually, Lewis finds Dempsey with a big right hand followed by a few huge uppercuts/left hook which puts Dempsey to sleep. Dempsey was vulnerable to a right hand.

 

The irony of this situation for me is that i would still pick Ali to win based on his unbelievable will to win and chin and heart to adapt a gameplan and beat opponents of similar or even better quality and performance. Actually, that is why i consider him the greatest.

 

Almost certainly not going to happen.

There is simply no way that those fighters would have matched the resumes of Louis and Ali.

Their inability to perform consistantly over that frequency/period can be forecast with more confidence than any given stylistic match up between two fighters.

Marciano is always going to get back problems/suffer ring wear.

Tyson is always going to neglect his training and get clobbered.

Tunney is always going to retire and move on to other projects.

Perhaps the most important part of what made Louis and Ali special, was their longevity!

 

Would Lennox Lewis have been as big if he had been born in the teens and come to maturity in the 1930's during the Depression? I don't think this is a silly question. Not only sports nutrition, but the general nutrition level for all of society has vastly improved. What about the impact of growth hormones? Not HGH, but animal growth hormones we ingest when we eat domestically raised animals which have been fed growth hormones.

And, need I add, what about other supplements not available in the Louis or Marciano or Dempsey eras?

All of this makes it almost impossible, I think, to now do a valid cross-generational comparision of athletics in almost any sport.

All one can compare validly is how they stacked up against other athletes of their own eras.
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A claim is made by the OP that Lewis would outlast Marciano. I might wonder where Lewis showed exceptional stamina in his own era--he never scored a ko after the 8th round.

And when did any of the great champions of the past get worn down by big guys. The primary weakness of the big fellows is generally poor stamina. And taking a punch doesn't seem to be exactly tied to size either.

I would conclude that a more likely scenario is that Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, and Ali outlast Lewis in a 15 round fight.

 

I'm not going down the road of whom would have won because that's just pure personal speculation, though, I would have loved to have seen Tunney / Louis.

 

nice idea but no way.
i don't see marciano clubbing his way through liston and frazier (as you called it)
tyson blitzes fraizer, liston, foreman. ???? hmm mike refused even to fight an old foreman not for all the money in the world.
gene tunney ?? i don't see him staying on top as long as louis did and the 60ties and 70ties top hw fighters i don't even see tunney beating them.
holyfield in the 70ties looses to big george and frazier from 71

 

Could you expand on your picks, and explain how you can be so specific in KDs?

 

Rocky was had a huge reach disadvantage against every single fighter he ever fought. Bob fitzsimmons has a reach advantage over him, and a decent one! Lewis is going to have a reach advantage (substantial) over 90% of the atgs he faces, anyway. Surely the fighters who are used to and have proved they can overcome reach disadvantages and whose A games dont rely on the long range jab, or who like to get in close are the fighters with the best chance of beating Lewis.

Iknow old Tyson was outclassed, but an old Holyfield who I am sure would have size discrepancies. Rockys style is simole. Crouch low, Hands up, slip and/or duck the long punces, to get in close where he can land his multi pumch combos, shortraight shots and/or inclose hooks and uppercuts. Is it humanly possible to have a style which is less reliant on reach? Does it really matter if the reach disadvantage is 10 inches or 15 inches?

I would like to know what you think about this, since you are a big rocky phone. Is it equally impossible for Rocky to beat the following fighers:

Primo Carnera, Wlad Klitchsko, Jerry Cooney, Joe Bugner, Hein Ten Hoff, Jess Willard, Jack Trammel, Nicolai Valuev?

 

If you were to put every man you named in every other mans era Ali and Lewis would come out looking best.