Revisiting the begining of a legend- Ruben Olivares vs Lionel Rose

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Travieso Arce, Nov 6, 2011.


  1. Travieso Arce

    Travieso Arce New Member Full Member

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    On the 22nd August 1969 WBC and WBA bantamweight champion Lionel Rose (34-2-0) defended his titles in California against Ruben Olivares (51-0-1). The amount of wins from the challenger was not the only astonishing thing about the talented mexican- he had 50 knockouts. While granted these were mostly against 'Mexican cab drivers' he had wins over former world champion Salvatore Burruni and the decent, but light punching, Takao Sakurai. The sheer consistency of knockouts is impressive- surely not all of these fights were going his way all the time, yet he still got evreyone bar two opponents out of there. Talk about smashing opposition, which is why he got a title shot. Its strange to think the Olivares who fought Rose was 22 years old.

    Lionel Rose on the other hand certainly fought a bunch of tough guys in fights preceding the Olivares clash. Wins over Alan Rudkin, Chuco Castillo, Fighting Hardara etc would prepere him for a untested banger you would think. Especially if you saw Rose's natural ability- he could really box.

    After a cautious first round Olivares really turned it up in the second. The last half of the second round was a nightmare for Rose and set the tone for the rest of the fight in a way. After a big knockdown Rose didn't appear the same again. Olivares fought beautifully mixing in body punches with head punches which kept Rose guessing. The 5th round was knockdowns were particularly brutal- that combination for the 1st knockdown was simply amazing to me. This led to the birth of a legend, who while would lose to some, had a great career beating many brilliant fighters, even when the odds were stacked against him. For me (and most others) the greatest bantamweight ever and if you haven't seen much of him I would advise checking out youtube, he's popular on there

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOl5aoDEq6Y[/ame]
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhUuZtgjdns&feature=related[/ame]
     
    Travieso Arce, Nov 6, 2011
    Travieso Arce, Nov 6, 2011
    #1
  2. Liechhardt

    Liechhardt Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lionel was weight ****ed. But Olivares was a murderous puncher, an ATG.
     
    Liechhardt, Nov 6, 2011
    Liechhardt, Nov 6, 2011
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  3. Travieso Arce

    Travieso Arce New Member Full Member

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    Yeah he was but its hard to tell which contributed more that or the punishment he absorbed in the second round.
     
    Travieso Arce, Nov 6, 2011
    Travieso Arce, Nov 6, 2011
    #3
  4. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah, that wasn't the same Rose we'd seen in previous bouts, but it was such a comprehensive beating it's tough to ever see Rose winning. He didn't hit hard enough to consistently deter such a devastating and skilled puncher as Olivares.
     
    El Bujia, Nov 6, 2011
    El Bujia, Nov 6, 2011
    #4
  5. Travieso Arce

    Travieso Arce New Member Full Member

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    Oh yeah so few people mention just how skilled Olivares was. His footwork in this fight is very good. He stays on top of Rose and even when he punches wild he still has seemingly good balance. I think in this fight he does a good job of touching, touching Rose and then Boom, he'd land a big shot. Mixing up the power of shots is difficult, in my experience of sparring anyway.
     
    Travieso Arce, Nov 6, 2011
    Travieso Arce, Nov 6, 2011
    #5
  6. steve w

    steve w Active Member Full Member

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    Olivares was brilliant on the night and he had to be because Rose was a beautiful boxer. Lionel struggled his whole career with weight, in fact after the Olivares fight he beat Suzuki at lightweght, Suzuki of course went on to win the lightweight belt. Following that he lost over 15 to Numata tha junior lightweight champ. His weight ballooned and he fought at around middleweght in the end sadly, he was a fat guy in a small man's body. RIP Lionel.
     
    steve w, Nov 6, 2011
    steve w, Nov 6, 2011
    #6
  7. Liechhardt

    Liechhardt Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Olivares probably would have beat Lionel anyways but remember he lost the title (and reclaimed it) against Castillo.
     
    Liechhardt, Nov 7, 2011
    Liechhardt, Nov 7, 2011
    #7
  8. AlFrancis

    AlFrancis Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This was the peak Olivares here circa 69, a great great fighter and a great boxer as well. Got to give it to Lionel, he traded with Ruben and went out on his shield.
     
    AlFrancis, Nov 7, 2011
    AlFrancis, Nov 7, 2011
    #8
  9. gregluland

    gregluland Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You're right about that, Lionel was a big BW, and he didn't help himself too much by smoking like a chimney,... Lionel was plagued by weight problems from as ealy as the Hararda fight. Lionel seemed a funny sort of bloke, apparently the Japanese stared at him in disbelief when they saw him puffing away on his cigarettes. He was so typical an Australian,,, with a "No Worries" attitude. Olivares was a great fighter and is justly placed ahead of Lionel although I believe that they were equal in natural ability. Olivares was more successful I think because of a real hunger and a totally different work ethic and it showed in the way he fought............ My mate was at the Rose Vs Gattelari fight, which still is one og the greatest fights in Aussie ring history,,, Rocky Gattelari was a very gifted flyweight, but Nick said that from where he was sitting Rose looked huge in there with Rocky,.... that is a great fight film to watch as well........ for those who don't know, it was probably Rose's finest performance of his career,,, he beat Gattelari to a pulp, and the knockout was horrible to watch Nick says, even though as a Sydney fighter, the Melbourne-ites hated Gattelari,,,,,,, Nick was a Melbourne boy and he wasn't such a Gattelari hater cos Nick said he was also a "wog"...... that being the reason for the hostility towards the Gattling gun.......
     
    gregluland, Nov 9, 2011
    gregluland, Nov 9, 2011
    #9
  10. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He lost the rematch to Castillo on cuts in a fight that was more or less even. Then again I thought all of their fights were incredibly close. Some of the best Bantamweight bouts we have on film. Castillo's fight with Rose was incredibly close as well. I know the fans didn't think too much of the decision.

    Castillo had some losses early in his career when pre-prime and late in his career when shop-worn that really didn't do his record any justice. At his best he was holding his own with the very elite in one of the strongest eras in the division's history. I actually had him edging the Herrera fight as well. Awesome fighter, one of the best Bantamweights I've seen on film.
     
    El Bujia, Nov 9, 2011
    El Bujia, Nov 9, 2011
    #10
  11. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Gattelari fight was a great performance from Rose, no doubt about it, but I'd agree with the consensus in being most impressed with his domination of Harada. Masterclass in counter-punching from Rose, against a swarmer he really didn't have the power to consistently hold honest. Just sheer technical excellence.
     
    El Bujia, Nov 9, 2011
    El Bujia, Nov 9, 2011
    #11
  12. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    Rose could really fight, beautiful left hand, but nobody was beating Olivares that night.
     
    greynotsoold, Nov 9, 2011
    greynotsoold, Nov 9, 2011
    #12