When do you think Ali should have called it quits?

And yet people still criticize champions like Marciano and Lewis for getting out of the game with their brains still intact.

 

Mostly good points there. I agree about Patterson...another myth is that he was ahead on points against Ali in their second fight. I've quashed it about five times now, I'm sure I'll have to again. :roll:

 

Probably because there is a tradition of excellent champions losing their championship badly when way past their best, and it narks our class, that someone is smart enough to call it quits early. I think people have a go at Tunney and Lewis because they seem aloof of the working class values of the sport, which may be a bit unfair, particularly to Lewis.

 

The Holmes and Berbick fiths were not necessary.

 

I think Ali should have quit no later than the Shaver fight. After losing the 13th and 14th sessions he came back with a tremendous effort and won the 15th - and that should have stood as the last great round of his career. He would have still got the verdict - albeit only a majority - even if he'd lost the 15th on all cards, but it was a great finale and deserved to sign off his career. I don't think the Spinks fights did much for his legacy, and they ruined Spinks - after winning the world title so early in his career he could never go back to being an ordinary fighter, and he never got the chance to develop at his own pace.

 

The Thrilla in Manilla would have been the right time. Go out with a great win over a fellow All time great in an epic battle.

 

after the manilla fight

 

Even if Ali got our after Manilla he'd still be the greatest by a country mile, so I say after Manilla.

 

"His behind will be mine by round nine."
---Ali (before the fight)

"I lied."
---Ali (after the fight)

 

No later than Foreman.

 

I've seen research that indicates trauma does lead to Parkinson's.

Either way, after beating Joe or Kenny for the 3rd time, there wasn't much else to prove.

 

Fair points, I think that's a decent shout. After the Spinks rematch at the very latest.

 

To guarantee his health, I think he should never have come back in 1970.
He'd be undefeated, a phenomenon, and an enigma.
We'd still think he was amazing.

As far as legacy goes, certainly nothing after Manila adds anything to his standing, IMO. In fact, some of those fights ( Coopman, Evangelista, Young, Dunn, Spinks etc.) possibly hurt his reputation.

So, 1967 or 1975.

1967's better though, because the guy would still be able to talk and walk properly.

 

P.S. - I made a mistake in the above, which lots of people will have picked up - Ali would still won a unanimous decision over Shaver even if he'd lost the 15th. Scores in rounds would have been 8-7, 8-7, 8-6-1.

 

Imagine Ali not coming back after he was banned... Frazier wins a title and seems invincible. Ali hardly ever shows himself in public now, speaks not much and (if at all) with respect about Joe and others in general.

It seems that he has matured. He seems not interested in coming back. He becomes a living legend. He's unbeaten. People wonder how would he manage against Frazier, or did Liston take a dive in their fight etc. There's noone more enigmatic in boxing. Once so loud and arrogant, now so humble and mysterious.

Frazier looses his title against Foreman in the fashion he did in reality.

Ali comes back for just one fight... and pulls the upset in the fashion that he really did... then retires permanently.

That would give him a hell of a legacy, wouldn't it?

And it would let him to keep his health probably.