Over at the site that hypes fights: James Toney, who, love him or hate him, is one of the most knowledgeable men in the sport, pays his respect to the late Joe Frazier, who he played in the movie ALI, and gives his top 5 HWs of all time, in no particular order: Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali, Rocky Marciano, Joe Frazier and Joe Louis. Also states that all the other HWs don't come close to these 5. Not really a sensational list here, I guess most have at least 3 or 4 of these men in their top 5, and the rest safely in the top 10. But I just wanted to share it since, in my book, Toneys opinion holds a lot of weight.
Of course Frazier doesn't really belong in that list. He holds no achievements close to the ones of the other fighters.
These lists are always a matter of opinion. That's what makes them interesting. There's no question Frazier fought in a great heavyweight era and defeated some great fighters. Others by comparison have dominated but in far lesser eras. Bottom line is it's all a matter of opinion :good
Personally, I don't think Rocky Marciano and Jack Johnson are top five Heavyweights. Ali, Frazier, and Louis you could make an argument for, but even Frazier is still borderline. The only two fighters on his list that are universally accepted as Top Five All-Time Heavyweight greats would be Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali. Once you get past though two men you could make a strong argument for a few other fighters including Larry Holmes, Lennox Lewis, George Foreman.
Yer I'm not that sold on Frazier, Johnson or Marciano as top 5 Either. I'm also a big fan of Lewis foreman and Holmes and imo I can't see how foreman isn't a top 5 heavyweight of all time
As mentioned, Toney's got every right to his opinion and there's nobody on there that you can really scoff at. I feel that one a General Concesnsus list that Holmes and Lewis would make it. Frazier, Johnson, Marciano, and Foreman are all inside the top 10. Though I do think that when people push Big George into the top 5 it has alot to do with him winning the title back in his later years, rather than actual names on his resume and a multitude of achivements. (Granted, him KO'ing Moorer is one of the greatest moments in boxing history)
Larry Holmes would beat Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano and Jack Johnson, and holds a victory(whether credible or not) over Muhammad Ali
He probably would, but he didn't. His win over Ali cannot be taken into account - he beat a shell of a shell of Ali. Frazier beat an Ali that was not that far removed from his prime and still had lots left. Larry is a top ten ATG HW in my book, and the most durable together with Foreman and Holyfield (also top 10 HWs in my book), but speculations about him beating other ATG heavyweights does not make him greater than a Frazier or a Marciano imo.
good list but I'd replace Johnson with Holmes. Johnson was overrated and Holmes could arguably beat any of those guys... honorable mention: Lewis, Foreman...Frazier could be replaced by either...
Larry Homes was a great champion. But what you say is correct about the version of Ali he beat. It was a nothing version.
